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A point release every n months is utterly useless for on-the-ground web developers. Safari needs to move to the Firefox/Chrome deployment model if it wants to r

A point release every n months is utterly useless for on-the-ground web developers. Safari needs to move to the Firefox/Chrome deployment model if it wants to remain at all relevant.

schrodinger 11y ago
Or remain the only browser (at least rendering engine) on iOS…
IBM 11y ago
I think it will remain relevant anyway as long as people keep using it.
- andybak 11y ago
  You sound almost happy about the fact we have a new IE6 in our midst.
  - cmyr 11y ago
    You sorely misremember IE6.
    - andybak 11y ago
      No. I remember IE6 very well. I remember when it was the most capable browser by far and I sat in an office full of developers cursing Netscape 4. I remember when IE 4.5 was the best browser for the Mac. I remember when Safari was a strange newcomer. I also remember many years passing when IE6 stuck around like an unwelcome fart and we all hoped and prayed that it would die so we could move on. Rapid silent updates are the best thing that happened to the web for both the user and for developers. Chrome has many serious issues but it's update cycle isn't one of them.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  Or as long as Apple keeps enforcing the "Safari Engine Only" rules on iOS. I think a lot of people would consider switching if Chrome for iOS was legitimate Chrome (rather than a Chrome UI with a Safari engine).
  - rimantas 11y ago
    No. Also, Chrome's engine comes from the same roots as Safari's.
scblock 11y ago
Great. But as an end user I "utterly" hate the Chrome/Firefox model of endless updates.
- andybak 11y ago
  You hate endless security updates? Endless compatibility updates? Endless feature improvements? I'm not sure what part of the dark ages you would like to return to. Are we talking pre-Chrome, pre-Firefox or the days when Netscape 4 roamed majestically across the Triassic plains?
  - falcolas 11y ago
    > Endless feature improvements? I'd be ok without these, thanks. So many improvements turn out to be regressions in usability, causing and endless cycle of "now how do I do X today?" The compatibility updates, well, I don't recall actually seeing a lot of those day to day. So, not a lot of benefit there either.
  - ihuman 11y ago
    Personally, I'd like to return to Firefox 3-era update naming schemes. Point releases for minor features and bug fixes. Main version number changes whenever the browser has a major change, that changes how people use it (Like Firefox 3 to 4). Nowadays, it seems like every update changes the main version number.
- mchahn 11y ago
  > the Chrome/Firefox model of endless updates. When I first heard about Chrome's secret updates I freaked out. Now I have used the chrome stable channel for years and have yet to see anything serious magically appear. It is king of disconcerting though to see the UI change. For example the new gray bookmark folders are still confusing my eyes. They disappear into the background for me.
mikhailt 11y ago
Relevant for "on the ground web devs", which is a very small market. Safari will remain relevant for a long time as long as it is the default browser on OS X and iOS. I prefer Safari and don't care much for 6-week release cycle for Chrome and Firefox. If anything, they've gotten worse in stability since they switched to 6 weeks cycle for me.
Longhanks 11y ago
Please no. I really love Safari for being just a really good browser. No 'sneaky OS' like Chrome (I don't need Chromes User management, thank you, and I'd much rather have my OS's context menus and font aliasing), and speedier, if you will, 'snappier' than Firefox, with its custom animations for every button and overall not very 'native' look and feel. No, I want a browser that does what a browser should do; let me easily and speedily browse the web. Safari is great at that.
- possibleNoob 11y ago
  >No, I want a browser that does what a browser should do; let me easily and speedily browse the web. Safari is great at that. Except it isn't. Because it's non standard different way of handling things means it's a lot more work for Web developers to give the same experience they give in chrome to safari users. You get a dumbed down experience on safari as a result.
  - ihuman 11y ago
    Are you saying that Longhanks isn't browsing the web "easily and speedily"? Even though it doesn't follow some standards, it appears to be fast for Longhanks anyway.
- spankalee 11y ago
  What does that have to do with release schedules?
- chris_wot 11y ago
  Except when a large number of sites break due to someone committing unreviewed code that makes it into Safari releases: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152803 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152803
- grumblestumble 11y ago
  ...at the expense of slowing down the adoption of agreed-upon standards to the point that they can't be reliably utilized because of compatibility issues? This is not exactly a new scenario. At least Microsoft has moved on.

A point release every n months is utterly useless for on-the-ground web developers. Safari needs to move to the Firefox/Chrome deployment model if it wants to remain at all relevant.

schrodinger 11y ago

Or remain the only browser (at least rendering engine) on iOS…

IBM 11y ago

I think it will remain relevant anyway as long as people keep using it.

andybak 11y ago
You sound almost happy about the fact we have a new IE6 in our midst.
- cmyr 11y ago
  You sorely misremember IE6.
  - andybak 11y ago
    No. I remember IE6 very well. I remember when it was the most capable browser by far and I sat in an office full of developers cursing Netscape 4. I remember when IE 4.5 was the best browser for the Mac. I remember when Safari was a strange newcomer. I also remember many years passing when IE6 stuck around like an unwelcome fart and we all hoped and prayed that it would die so we could move on. Rapid silent updates are the best thing that happened to the web for both the user and for developers. Chrome has many serious issues but it's update cycle isn't one of them.
Someone1234 11y ago
Or as long as Apple keeps enforcing the "Safari Engine Only" rules on iOS. I think a lot of people would consider switching if Chrome for iOS was legitimate Chrome (rather than a Chrome UI with a Safari engine).
- rimantas 11y ago
  No. Also, Chrome's engine comes from the same roots as Safari's.

scblock 11y ago

Great. But as an end user I "utterly" hate the Chrome/Firefox model of endless updates.

andybak 11y ago
You hate endless security updates? Endless compatibility updates? Endless feature improvements? I'm not sure what part of the dark ages you would like to return to. Are we talking pre-Chrome, pre-Firefox or the days when Netscape 4 roamed majestically across the Triassic plains?
- falcolas 11y ago
  > Endless feature improvements? I'd be ok without these, thanks. So many improvements turn out to be regressions in usability, causing and endless cycle of "now how do I do X today?" The compatibility updates, well, I don't recall actually seeing a lot of those day to day. So, not a lot of benefit there either.
- ihuman 11y ago
  Personally, I'd like to return to Firefox 3-era update naming schemes. Point releases for minor features and bug fixes. Main version number changes whenever the browser has a major change, that changes how people use it (Like Firefox 3 to 4). Nowadays, it seems like every update changes the main version number.
mchahn 11y ago
> the Chrome/Firefox model of endless updates. When I first heard about Chrome's secret updates I freaked out. Now I have used the chrome stable channel for years and have yet to see anything serious magically appear. It is king of disconcerting though to see the UI change. For example the new gray bookmark folders are still confusing my eyes. They disappear into the background for me.

mikhailt 11y ago

Relevant for "on the ground web devs", which is a very small market. Safari will remain relevant for a long time as long as it is the default browser on OS X and iOS. I prefer Safari and don't care much for 6-week release cycle for Chrome and Firefox. If anything, they've gotten worse in stability since they switched to 6 weeks cycle for me.

Longhanks 11y ago

Please no. I really love Safari for being just a really good browser. No 'sneaky OS' like Chrome (I don't need Chromes User management, thank you, and I'd much rather have my OS's context menus and font aliasing), and speedier, if you will, 'snappier' than Firefox, with its custom animations for every button and overall not very 'native' look and feel. No, I want a browser that does what a browser should do; let me easily and speedily browse the web. Safari is great at that.

possibleNoob 11y ago
>No, I want a browser that does what a browser should do; let me easily and speedily browse the web. Safari is great at that. Except it isn't. Because it's non standard different way of handling things means it's a lot more work for Web developers to give the same experience they give in chrome to safari users. You get a dumbed down experience on safari as a result.
- ihuman 11y ago
  Are you saying that Longhanks isn't browsing the web "easily and speedily"? Even though it doesn't follow some standards, it appears to be fast for Longhanks anyway.
spankalee 11y ago
What does that have to do with release schedules?
chris_wot 11y ago
Except when a large number of sites break due to someone committing unreviewed code that makes it into Safari releases: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152803 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152803
grumblestumble 11y ago
...at the expense of slowing down the adoption of agreed-upon standards to the point that they can't be reliably utilized because of compatibility issues? This is not exactly a new scenario. At least Microsoft has moved on.