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This makes me wonder how many people are okay with being underpaid. Like my title is officially VP of Engineering. But because of the circumstances of my positi

This makes me wonder how many people are okay with being underpaid. Like my title is officially VP of Engineering. But because of the circumstances of my position and what I was hired to do, I am probably making less than what someone in my position gets in sign on bonuses. $30,000/yr This is because I am not only the first employee but the only employee (if you don't count CEO) and only technical person. I was hired to build a SaaS/Company by the owner of a company and to make that company it's first official customer of the SaaS. I'm being paid out of his pocket and the profits of his company. The pay isn't even close to what a software engineer with my experience should make, let alone the VP of Engineering. But it's above average salary in my state/area and is enough for me to live on.

carlmcqueen 11y ago
All I can offer you is it only matters if you define yourself by your salary, which in my experience will only leave you feeling pretty hollow. I have worked for companies where I was underpaid but the work was great and the co-workers were amazing and now I work for a company where the work is boring but the pay is excellent (like you, for where I live) which makes more sense for my family right now. I'm okay with it, but I miss the old work environment.
- joshmanders 11y ago
  In the near future I'd prefer to be making more. But when I was hired I specifically made it a requirement that I am paid at least enough to support my family and myself in the area. My state's average income is 24k/yr so I'm 6k above that. Which with my cost of living leaves me with a decent amount of money to survive and pay for my families needs.
ceejayoz 11y ago
I sure hope you're getting a big chunk of equity as the technical co-founder.
- joshmanders 11y ago
  I'm pretty positive I'm in full control of this company. I've taken reigns and made all the decisions. CEO has pitched in his requests, but ultimately has put me in full control, that being said I'm sure while my title says VP of Engineering (for his parent company by the way) I will become the CTO and co-founder of this company when it launches.
  - cbeach 11y ago
    Get equity or get out - make the promises binding.
    - joshmanders 11y ago
      First off, I made the decision to go for equity last time place I worked. That does not always equate to being a founder. I was the only non-founder with equity and when I was fired (for being burnt out but that's another story) I lost in the end. On top of that, being the only technical person and have full control over everything, including domains, hosting, code, etc. It's not really like I can be forced out.
      - cookiecaper 11y ago
        It is like you can be forced out. Get a binding legal agreement.
      - mod 11y ago
        Yes you can. You were paid for those things. You can't hold them ransom.
      - beeboop 11y ago
        >I'm pretty positive I'm in full control of this company That you don't know pretty much guarantees you have zero legal control. I assume the corporate entity is not in your name. Domains, hosting, etc are all very easily gotten from you by a single letter from a lawyer. You will likely hire your own lawyer, and you'll essentially be paying him to tell that you have to cough up, because you'll lose in court, in addition to tens of thousands of dollars and a ruined reputation.
melvinmt 11y ago
Titles at startups (especially early-early stage) are somewhat negligible. Since you don't manage any engineers and not dealing with the responsibilities of a VP of Engineering of say, a 200-500 FTE startup, you shouldn't hinge too much on your title.
- joshmanders 11y ago
  I'm really not hinging on it, I just gave it because title seemed to be requirement of this form. I really am just a software engineer, because like you said, in a 2 man company, titles really don't make a difference.
Glyptodon 11y ago
I know the feeling. I make $46k/year as (mostly) a Ruby on Rails/Javascript dev, but without moving to another city (likely in another state), there are no reasonable alternative job prospects. Not really okay with it, but I don't want to move to NY/SF/LA as lifestyle there is so much more miserable. (Current work: 7 to 15 minute commute, decent time off, can be hiking in the great outdoors within 30 minutes, and still bike downtown in 10/15 minutes. Mortgage runs less than rent in the Bay Area by large amounts...)
- joshmanders 11y ago
  My point exactly. I'd not be able to support my family as well as I do in SF on even typical engineer salary. Cost of living alone makes my "low" salary worth it to me.
- pcurve 11y ago
  I don't know what state you are in, but that is very low for RoR/JS dev. There are remote-only positions that would pay double that easily. That would mean 0 minute and you can stay where you are.
  - Glyptodon 11y ago
    Where/how does one find such positions?
    - cookiecaper 11y ago
      There are job boards that specialize in listings that are willing to accept remote workers. http://weworkremotely.com http://weworkremotely.com is one. You could also easily top that on an online freelancing site like Upwork. I have friends that are Upwork-exclusive and make upwards of $200k per year. It takes a while to get that going, but it's a great option if you can swing it.
      - metakermit 11y ago
        For the remote workers among you, the similar freelancing spreadsheet might be interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11335661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11335661
whitegrape 11y ago
I had a similar setup (though not a fancy title) for around $40k/yr if I worked full time for the whole year (I only did part time during spring/fall semesters). There was a gentleman's understanding that if the company got acquired for big bucks, I'd be taken care of, but we never formalized a stock option agreement. Eventually we shut down, but I was on my last couple semesters of college and had enough saved up that I wouldn't need to be concerned about funds until around 4 months after graduation. Got a BigCo job after graduating, making over 3 times the former amount while doing less interesting (and less intense) work. I could go back to a "low" salary job ("low" considering almost everyone I knew from high school is making $40k or less) especially if the work was nicer since my expenses have only gone up a bit, but now I'd rather build up a decades-sized nest egg first (and in less than a decade of time) even at the cost of my soul.
marssaxman 11y ago
I wouldn't say that I am okay with being underpaid, exactly, but I have come to semi-grudgingly accept that I simply don't find money motivating enough for its own sake to put up with the drudgery and boredom that always seem to come along with the jobs offering more of it. Good jobs don't pay and paying jobs aren't good, as a first approximation.
jacalata 11y ago
Assuming you have significant equity in the company, add that information.
rokhayakebe 11y ago
I am going to give you a different feedback. Find something else that pays you what you are worth. If you really want to help this company, find them someone else who would take $30k and when you get your big salary elsewhere invest in it. Also it is a lot easier to go from Big co to tiny co later in your career than the other way around. This is likely to hurt you in the long run.

carlmcqueen 11y ago

All I can offer you is it only matters if you define yourself by your salary, which in my experience will only leave you feeling pretty hollow. I have worked for companies where I was underpaid but the work was great and the co-workers were amazing and now I work for a company where the work is boring but the pay is excellent (like you, for where I live) which makes more sense for my family right now. I'm okay with it, but I miss the old work environment.

joshmanders 11y ago
In the near future I'd prefer to be making more. But when I was hired I specifically made it a requirement that I am paid at least enough to support my family and myself in the area. My state's average income is 24k/yr so I'm 6k above that. Which with my cost of living leaves me with a decent amount of money to survive and pay for my families needs.

ceejayoz 11y ago

I sure hope you're getting a big chunk of equity as the technical co-founder.

joshmanders 11y ago
I'm pretty positive I'm in full control of this company. I've taken reigns and made all the decisions. CEO has pitched in his requests, but ultimately has put me in full control, that being said I'm sure while my title says VP of Engineering (for his parent company by the way) I will become the CTO and co-founder of this company when it launches.
- cbeach 11y ago
  Get equity or get out - make the promises binding.
  - joshmanders 11y ago
    First off, I made the decision to go for equity last time place I worked. That does not always equate to being a founder. I was the only non-founder with equity and when I was fired (for being burnt out but that's another story) I lost in the end. On top of that, being the only technical person and have full control over everything, including domains, hosting, code, etc. It's not really like I can be forced out.
    - cookiecaper 11y ago
      It is like you can be forced out. Get a binding legal agreement.
    - mod 11y ago
      Yes you can. You were paid for those things. You can't hold them ransom.
    - beeboop 11y ago
      >I'm pretty positive I'm in full control of this company That you don't know pretty much guarantees you have zero legal control. I assume the corporate entity is not in your name. Domains, hosting, etc are all very easily gotten from you by a single letter from a lawyer. You will likely hire your own lawyer, and you'll essentially be paying him to tell that you have to cough up, because you'll lose in court, in addition to tens of thousands of dollars and a ruined reputation.

melvinmt 11y ago

Titles at startups (especially early-early stage) are somewhat negligible. Since you don't manage any engineers and not dealing with the responsibilities of a VP of Engineering of say, a 200-500 FTE startup, you shouldn't hinge too much on your title.

joshmanders 11y ago
I'm really not hinging on it, I just gave it because title seemed to be requirement of this form. I really am just a software engineer, because like you said, in a 2 man company, titles really don't make a difference.

Glyptodon 11y ago

I know the feeling. I make $46k/year as (mostly) a Ruby on Rails/Javascript dev, but without moving to another city (likely in another state), there are no reasonable alternative job prospects. Not really okay with it, but I don't want to move to NY/SF/LA as lifestyle there is so much more miserable. (Current work: 7 to 15 minute commute, decent time off, can be hiking in the great outdoors within 30 minutes, and still bike downtown in 10/15 minutes. Mortgage runs less than rent in the Bay Area by large amounts...)

joshmanders 11y ago
My point exactly. I'd not be able to support my family as well as I do in SF on even typical engineer salary. Cost of living alone makes my "low" salary worth it to me.
pcurve 11y ago
I don't know what state you are in, but that is very low for RoR/JS dev. There are remote-only positions that would pay double that easily. That would mean 0 minute and you can stay where you are.
- Glyptodon 11y ago
  Where/how does one find such positions?
  - cookiecaper 11y ago
    There are job boards that specialize in listings that are willing to accept remote workers. http://weworkremotely.com http://weworkremotely.com is one. You could also easily top that on an online freelancing site like Upwork. I have friends that are Upwork-exclusive and make upwards of $200k per year. It takes a while to get that going, but it's a great option if you can swing it.
    - metakermit 11y ago
      For the remote workers among you, the similar freelancing spreadsheet might be interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11335661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11335661

whitegrape 11y ago

I had a similar setup (though not a fancy title) for around $40k/yr if I worked full time for the whole year (I only did part time during spring/fall semesters). There was a gentleman's understanding that if the company got acquired for big bucks, I'd be taken care of, but we never formalized a stock option agreement. Eventually we shut down, but I was on my last couple semesters of college and had enough saved up that I wouldn't need to be concerned about funds until around 4 months after graduation. Got a BigCo job after graduating, making over 3 times the former amount while doing less interesting (and less intense) work. I could go back to a "low" salary job ("low" considering almost everyone I knew from high school is making $40k or less) especially if the work was nicer since my expenses have only gone up a bit, but now I'd rather build up a decades-sized nest egg first (and in less than a decade of time) even at the cost of my soul.

marssaxman 11y ago

I wouldn't say that I am okay with being underpaid, exactly, but I have come to semi-grudgingly accept that I simply don't find money motivating enough for its own sake to put up with the drudgery and boredom that always seem to come along with the jobs offering more of it. Good jobs don't pay and paying jobs aren't good, as a first approximation.

jacalata 11y ago

Assuming you have significant equity in the company, add that information.

rokhayakebe 11y ago

I am going to give you a different feedback. Find something else that pays you what you are worth. If you really want to help this company, find them someone else who would take $30k and when you get your big salary elsewhere invest in it. Also it is a lot easier to go from Big co to tiny co later in your career than the other way around. This is likely to hurt you in the long run.