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All I know about GAE is that when my python app started being used by HN users I upgraded my account to a paid one to increase performance. In the transition ,

by ionwake 11y ago

All I know about GAE is that when my python app started being used by HN users I upgraded my account to a paid one to increase performance. In the transition , without any warning, google took the app down, for a day. Thus killing all chance of acquiring a userbase now that I had hit the frontpage. When I went onto the IRC GAE channel to ask someone for help to unlock or keep the app running during this important moment the reply from a staff member was ' You should have planned better'. I was surprised to hear this response and did not pursue the matter further. Its all in the IRC logs if any of this sounds doubtful. TL;DR; Surprisingly, I did not find the GAE platform to be a supportive environment for startups.

boulos 11y ago
That's awful, I'm sorry you experienced that. It's no use to you now, but if you had gotten that message to me, I would have walked over to SRE / Support and we could have reset your quotas (I assume that's what you mean by "Took the app down for a day"). Disclaimer: I work on Compute Engine not on App Engine.
- michaelbuckbee 11y ago
  I appreciate that you'd be willing to do that, but the fact that it's necessary to get a human (even a technical and helpful one such as yourself) involved to deal with this is a big red flag.
  - boulos 11y ago
    To be clear, the person he reached should have reset / gotten the quota reset (if that's the root cause). There's often a human needed when something goes sideways, which is why we have paid support for Cloud - cloud.google.com/support. The issue is that he reached a human, and it didn't fix his problem. So like I said, sorry! (but I think it's okay to rely on humans fixing things like this)
    - ionwake2 11y ago
      I had to log in with my other account ( as I have the 'get back to work blocker' appearing on my other one). I just want to say, this happened a year ago, and things may have changed. I just had to make the statement as it hit close to home and Ive never mentioned it previously. Hopefully there is a system/warning in place so apps arent taken down, without warning like this, when transitioning from a free to a paid account ( I think it was to do with the quotas like you said). All the best and thanks for the reply.
publicfig 11y ago
I have heard many more stories close to this one than I ever have about a successful product launch utilizing GAE. I've never used GAE and have mostly been scared off by my experience with Google support throughout other applications and services being close to non-existent. I know by this point Google is large enough that this may not seem like a concern, but I am somewhat surprised that there isn't a larger user outcry against Google's support structure.
Strom 11y ago
Do you remember the day when this IRC event took place or what nick you used? I have the logs, and would like to look into this. Also, when you say "staff member", do you mean Google's staff? The reason I'm asking is that I've been active in the GAE IRC channel for 6 years and I don't remember anything like this ever happening. I do remember a few cases where people have come with similar problems complaining that their free quota ran out and then regular people telling them that they need to start paying to use the service further. There really hasn't been an active Googler in the GAE IRC channel for many years, so that fact makes all of this particularly fishy.
- ionwake2 11y ago
  Hi, Thanks for the reply. I would like to retract the statement that it was a member of staff, you are correct, this may have not been the case. It was a while ago and it may have just been someone in the know, who didn't actually work for google. I didnt expect anyone to even notice my comment. I should have been more careful with my statements. I will be removing the comment when HN allows me to log back in (apparently I can log in again in about an hour).
  - avar 11y ago
    > I will be removing the comment when HN allows me to log back in. In that case, here's a copy of your initial comment, because removing top-level comments that have ongoing follow-up discussion makes for very confusing discussions: > All I know about GAE is that when my python app started being used > by HN users I upgraded my account to a paid one to increase > performance. > > In the transition , without any warning, google took the app down, > for a day. Thus killing all chance of acquiring a userbase now that > I had hit the frontpage. > > When I went onto the IRC GAE channel to ask someone for help to > unlock or keep the app running during this important moment the > reply from a staff member was ' You should have planned better'. I > was surprised to hear this response and did not pursue the matter > further. Its all in the IRC logs if any of this sounds doubtful. > > TL;DR; Surprisingly, I did not find the GAE platform to be a > supportive environment for startups. > > ionwake @ ~2016-03-21 22:xx UTC
notliketherest 11y ago
"For startups" Well they say right there in the article: "App Engine provides developers with a great platform for building web applications and services that need to operate at Google scale." </s>
eecks 11y ago
That is pretty awful. Have you found an alternative that you can suggest?
- baudehlo 11y ago
  It's really not that hard to run your own servers (VPS) - it's almost always the best way to control things and they scale up way better than most people think. But if you're really scared of that, farm out the entire operations system to a company like vmfarms. They'll take care of everything for you. A bit more expensive but they will hold your hand the entire way.
  - eecks 11y ago
    At the moment I just need something much smaller to be honest.

by ionwake 11y ago

boulos 11y ago

That's awful, I'm sorry you experienced that. It's no use to you now, but if you had gotten that message to me, I would have walked over to SRE / Support and we could have reset your quotas (I assume that's what you mean by "Took the app down for a day"). Disclaimer: I work on Compute Engine not on App Engine.

michaelbuckbee 11y ago
I appreciate that you'd be willing to do that, but the fact that it's necessary to get a human (even a technical and helpful one such as yourself) involved to deal with this is a big red flag.
- boulos 11y ago
  To be clear, the person he reached should have reset / gotten the quota reset (if that's the root cause). There's often a human needed when something goes sideways, which is why we have paid support for Cloud - cloud.google.com/support. The issue is that he reached a human, and it didn't fix his problem. So like I said, sorry! (but I think it's okay to rely on humans fixing things like this)
  - ionwake2 11y ago
    I had to log in with my other account ( as I have the 'get back to work blocker' appearing on my other one). I just want to say, this happened a year ago, and things may have changed. I just had to make the statement as it hit close to home and Ive never mentioned it previously. Hopefully there is a system/warning in place so apps arent taken down, without warning like this, when transitioning from a free to a paid account ( I think it was to do with the quotas like you said). All the best and thanks for the reply.

publicfig 11y ago

I have heard many more stories close to this one than I ever have about a successful product launch utilizing GAE. I've never used GAE and have mostly been scared off by my experience with Google support throughout other applications and services being close to non-existent. I know by this point Google is large enough that this may not seem like a concern, but I am somewhat surprised that there isn't a larger user outcry against Google's support structure.

Strom 11y ago

Do you remember the day when this IRC event took place or what nick you used? I have the logs, and would like to look into this. Also, when you say "staff member", do you mean Google's staff? The reason I'm asking is that I've been active in the GAE IRC channel for 6 years and I don't remember anything like this ever happening. I do remember a few cases where people have come with similar problems complaining that their free quota ran out and then regular people telling them that they need to start paying to use the service further. There really hasn't been an active Googler in the GAE IRC channel for many years, so that fact makes all of this particularly fishy.

ionwake2 11y ago
Hi, Thanks for the reply. I would like to retract the statement that it was a member of staff, you are correct, this may have not been the case. It was a while ago and it may have just been someone in the know, who didn't actually work for google. I didnt expect anyone to even notice my comment. I should have been more careful with my statements. I will be removing the comment when HN allows me to log back in (apparently I can log in again in about an hour).
- avar 11y ago
  > I will be removing the comment when HN allows me to log back in. In that case, here's a copy of your initial comment, because removing top-level comments that have ongoing follow-up discussion makes for very confusing discussions: > All I know about GAE is that when my python app started being used > by HN users I upgraded my account to a paid one to increase > performance. > > In the transition , without any warning, google took the app down, > for a day. Thus killing all chance of acquiring a userbase now that > I had hit the frontpage. > > When I went onto the IRC GAE channel to ask someone for help to > unlock or keep the app running during this important moment the > reply from a staff member was ' You should have planned better'. I > was surprised to hear this response and did not pursue the matter > further. Its all in the IRC logs if any of this sounds doubtful. > > TL;DR; Surprisingly, I did not find the GAE platform to be a > supportive environment for startups. > > ionwake @ ~2016-03-21 22:xx UTC

notliketherest 11y ago

"For startups" Well they say right there in the article: "App Engine provides developers with a great platform for building web applications and services that need to operate at Google scale." </s>

eecks 11y ago

That is pretty awful. Have you found an alternative that you can suggest?

baudehlo 11y ago
It's really not that hard to run your own servers (VPS) - it's almost always the best way to control things and they scale up way better than most people think. But if you're really scared of that, farm out the entire operations system to a company like vmfarms. They'll take care of everything for you. A bit more expensive but they will hold your hand the entire way.
- eecks 11y ago
  At the moment I just need something much smaller to be honest.