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I think the current view that iOS takes of file management takes it out of the realm of "good productivity device", full stop. The hardware is there. The softwa

by deong 11y ago

I think the current view that iOS takes of file management takes it out of the realm of "good productivity device", full stop. The hardware is there. The software isn't particularly close yet, in my opinion.

dkonofalski 11y ago
I never understood this. Who wants to mess around with the file system? 95% of users probably don't care where or how the OS is storing your data. They only care that they can access it when they want to access it. The only people that care to have that granular control over the file system are the people that want full control over the device too and those are not the demographic for iOS. iOS is all about making it simpler for people to do the things they want to do. Manually managing a file system is the opposite of simple.
- JoBrad 11y ago
  Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opinion, while it works well in single-app circumstances, iOS' model is completely backward, from a user standpoint. An app is simply a tool that allows me to accomplish some goal. So it's not that I want to mess with the file system as much as I want to work with some file, and the app-centric model robs you of a lot of productivity when trying to accomplish this - especially if you ever need to switch back and forth between apps to work on a single file.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?
    - JoBrad 11y ago
      Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
    - SiVal 11y ago
      Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.
      - moftz 11y ago
        If a power user needs to do all of these things, chances are they aren't going to even think of trying to do this all on a tablet ala iPad. People use tablets to do simple tasks (check email, browse web, basic photo/doc editing, etc) that don't require something at least as big as a laptop. It's supposed to be a simple environment for doing simple tasks quickly. It's meant for people wanting a device that Just Works (TM) without getting bogged down in trying to get App A working with App B with App C with App D. This really is a non-issue and will always be one. If you need to do some heavy work, do it on a laptop. You can buy tons of different laptops now that are very thin and don't take up much more room in your backpack than a tablet would. If you need any more power, then rent a compile server. There is always going to be a cost for having a portable device, it's that you won't be able to get all of your work done on it. The real issue is when OS developers try to push this simple, tablet environment to devices that shouldn't need it.

by deong 11y ago

dkonofalski 11y ago

I never understood this. Who wants to mess around with the file system? 95% of users probably don't care where or how the OS is storing your data. They only care that they can access it when they want to access it. The only people that care to have that granular control over the file system are the people that want full control over the device too and those are not the demographic for iOS. iOS is all about making it simpler for people to do the things they want to do. Manually managing a file system is the opposite of simple.

JoBrad 11y ago
Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opinion, while it works well in single-app circumstances, iOS' model is completely backward, from a user standpoint. An app is simply a tool that allows me to accomplish some goal. So it's not that I want to mess with the file system as much as I want to work with some file, and the app-centric model robs you of a lot of productivity when trying to accomplish this - especially if you ever need to switch back and forth between apps to work on a single file.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?
  - JoBrad 11y ago
    Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
  - SiVal 11y ago
    Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.
    - moftz 11y ago
      If a power user needs to do all of these things, chances are they aren't going to even think of trying to do this all on a tablet ala iPad. People use tablets to do simple tasks (check email, browse web, basic photo/doc editing, etc) that don't require something at least as big as a laptop. It's supposed to be a simple environment for doing simple tasks quickly. It's meant for people wanting a device that Just Works (TM) without getting bogged down in trying to get App A working with App B with App C with App D. This really is a non-issue and will always be one. If you need to do some heavy work, do it on a laptop. You can buy tons of different laptops now that are very thin and don't take up much more room in your backpack than a tablet would. If you need any more power, then rent a compile server. There is always going to be a cost for having a portable device, it's that you won't be able to get all of your work done on it. The real issue is when OS developers try to push this simple, tablet environment to devices that shouldn't need it.