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Microsoft had to go through an extremely painful and still incomplete transition to make windows suitable for tablets. If apple tries to make a mac tablet then

by Joeri 11y ago

Microsoft had to go through an extremely painful and still incomplete transition to make windows suitable for tablets. If apple tries to make a mac tablet then it will be a horrible experience. They can't fix the fact that mac apps are designed for mouse/trackpad interaction and dense UI, not pen/finger and big targets. And as for making an iOS tablet that's more suitable for productivity, the iPad Pro is that device, and basically as good as it gets.

deong 11y ago
I think the current view that iOS takes of file management takes it out of the realm of "good productivity device", full stop. The hardware is there. The software isn't particularly close yet, in my opinion.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  I never understood this. Who wants to mess around with the file system? 95% of users probably don't care where or how the OS is storing your data. They only care that they can access it when they want to access it. The only people that care to have that granular control over the file system are the people that want full control over the device too and those are not the demographic for iOS. iOS is all about making it simpler for people to do the things they want to do. Manually managing a file system is the opposite of simple.
  - JoBrad 11y ago
    Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opinion, while it works well in single-app circumstances, iOS' model is completely backward, from a user standpoint. An app is simply a tool that allows me to accomplish some goal. So it's not that I want to mess with the file system as much as I want to work with some file, and the app-centric model robs you of a lot of productivity when trying to accomplish this - especially if you ever need to switch back and forth between apps to work on a single file.
    - dkonofalski 11y ago
      Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?
      - JoBrad 11y ago
        Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
      - SiVal 11y ago
        Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
>If apple tries to make a mac tablet then it will be a horrible experience. The Microsoft solution was painful because it was based on the insane premise that all software could run on all devices - as if anyone really needs the full version of Adobe CS or Visual Studio on a mobile, or wants Candy Crush taking up all the available pixels on a 30" monitor. Apple will do something less insane. There's already overlap between the OS X and iOS touch classes. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future iPad sold as the next Mac keyboard/remote display a few generations from now, when the tactility is a little better.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  It's not that we need the full version of those things on there, it's that we have the ability to have them. /s It's the same situation when people pretend like the Play App Store is better than Apple's App Stores because anyone can put anything on there without having to go through Apple first. In theory, yes, it's great that you have the freedom to do that and that Google doesn't act as the arbiter of your precious apps. In reality, though, the Play Store is a cesspool of crappy apps. When I got my Nexus 7, I tried to install the Netflix app from the Play Store. There's multiple Netflix apps (all called "Netflix") that claim to be from Netflix, Inc. I don't know if they've fixed that now, but just the fact that something like that can happen is crazy. Everyone's so caught up on whether or not they could [do something] that they never stopped to think about whether they should [be able to].

by Joeri 11y ago

deong 11y ago

I think the current view that iOS takes of file management takes it out of the realm of "good productivity device", full stop. The hardware is there. The software isn't particularly close yet, in my opinion.

dkonofalski 11y ago
I never understood this. Who wants to mess around with the file system? 95% of users probably don't care where or how the OS is storing your data. They only care that they can access it when they want to access it. The only people that care to have that granular control over the file system are the people that want full control over the device too and those are not the demographic for iOS. iOS is all about making it simpler for people to do the things they want to do. Manually managing a file system is the opposite of simple.
- JoBrad 11y ago
  Because the convoluted process of getting Application B to work with an item created/edited by Application A is incredibly tedious in the iOS model. In my opinion, while it works well in single-app circumstances, iOS' model is completely backward, from a user standpoint. An app is simply a tool that allows me to accomplish some goal. So it's not that I want to mess with the file system as much as I want to work with some file, and the app-centric model robs you of a lot of productivity when trying to accomplish this - especially if you ever need to switch back and forth between apps to work on a single file.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    Can you give an example of this? Nearly every app that I've needed to switch between offers some kind of ability to open the file using the share menu. Especially when I can throw Dropbox or iCloud into that mix, I've yet to come across a situation where I couldn't open 1 file in 2 different apps. Am I missing your point or is there more nuance to your particular situation?
    - JoBrad 11y ago
      Well, my point was that the share menu is an app-centric model that is horribly inefficient - not that it can't be done. Unless all of the apps you are using have incorporated Dropbox or iCloud into their model, those don't help you without an exposed file system. I think it's telling that one of the most successful portions of iOS has been Photos - which has an (in effect) exposed file system.
    - SiVal 11y ago
      Power users are people who take multiple software tools and play them like the conductor of an orchestra, crafting from them a powerful metatool with the combined features of all, often with gap fillers and automators, such as shell scripts, AppleScript, cron jobs, Apple Automation, etc. They tend to apply dynamic subsets of this power tool to "projects", kept in "project folders", containing images downloaded with one tool, edited with another, graphics generated in a third, code edited in another, marketing docs written in yet another, data fetched by a script to be opened by a spreadsheet app, turned into a chart and combined with the marketing doc into a PDF-based presentation.... And Apple builds some hardware that would be great for adding powers to the metatool (quick, finger-drawn sketches turn into useful charts to be merged into some other doc with layout manipulated by hand...) but Apple's position is that their target customers are really far too...limited to be able to understand hard stuff like "folders" or how to even find their files after plugging a thumb drive into a USB port, so no folders, no USB, no confusing "orchestra", just sit back, poke an app button and buy something from one of our nice stores (you understand shopping, don't you? Poke the button), notice how thin it is, poke an app button and watch a nice video, notice what a nice shade of pink, uh, "rose gold" it is, poke an app button and distract yourself with FaceBook, express and opinion about a celebrity and, since we're always adding new ways to buy things, maybe treat yourself and buy something extra.... It has worked wonders for them financially, so I can't fault their logic (bemoan it, yes, but not fault it), but this is no equivalent of a power user OS with a real file system.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago

>If apple tries to make a mac tablet then it will be a horrible experience. The Microsoft solution was painful because it was based on the insane premise that all software could run on all devices - as if anyone really needs the full version of Adobe CS or Visual Studio on a mobile, or wants Candy Crush taking up all the available pixels on a 30" monitor. Apple will do something less insane. There's already overlap between the OS X and iOS touch classes. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future iPad sold as the next Mac keyboard/remote display a few generations from now, when the tactility is a little better.

dkonofalski 11y ago
It's not that we need the full version of those things on there, it's that we have the ability to have them. /s It's the same situation when people pretend like the Play App Store is better than Apple's App Stores because anyone can put anything on there without having to go through Apple first. In theory, yes, it's great that you have the freedom to do that and that Google doesn't act as the arbiter of your precious apps. In reality, though, the Play Store is a cesspool of crappy apps. When I got my Nexus 7, I tried to install the Netflix app from the Play Store. There's multiple Netflix apps (all called "Netflix") that claim to be from Netflix, Inc. I don't know if they've fixed that now, but just the fact that something like that can happen is crazy. Everyone's so caught up on whether or not they could [do something] that they never stopped to think about whether they should [be able to].