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It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. The real question is if they will admit it was a miss

It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. Companies really hate admitting they were wrong so my bet is that they are stuck with it for the forseeable future.

yoz-y 11y ago
Says who? 3D touch is an awesome addition. Granted it has discoverability problems but I think that adding a new dimension to the interaction is great. It is a nice way to avoid a cluttered interface while providing advanced power-user functionality.
- cwbrandsma 11y ago
  Says who? 3D touch is a horrible addition. It has lots of discoverability problems and is inconsistent across applications. We avoid cluttering the interface by adding easter eggs to the interface for features that everyone would like to use.
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    But people already CAN use those features, force touch is but a shortcut mechanism. If some applications uses it in a terrible way then that is not the Apple's problem (unless, of course, the app is made by Apple)
- Throwaway23412 11y ago
  If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. The current CEO of Apple is the former COO, someone well regarded for his prowess in managing Apple's supply chain and determining optimal cost per unit for Apple's products. If only a small percentage of customers use 3D Touch and 3D Touch adds a substantial cost per unit, I can see why Mr. Cook would disagree with 3D Touch being an awesome addition. I personally use 3D Touch to open links in new tabs in Safari, but that's only because 3D Touch interferes with the long press gesture.
  - azinman2 11y ago
    Lots of Apple products have things that only power users can find/use, even under Jobs. The design philosophy is that it's not require to use, but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing.
    - mehwoot 11y ago
      but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing. Yeah, but there is a difference between a software feature that, once written, would generally take more effort to remove, and a hardware feature that costs money for every unit you ship.
  - PopsiclePete 11y ago
    >If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. That seems to be a thing with Apple in general. For example, I just recently discovered that by holding "option" while clicking the "Format" drop-down on the Preview program's Export screen, you can get additional formats to appear, magically. For "advanced" users I'm guessing? How the hell was I supposed to know that ??? Where else can I see additional things by holding down "option" ??? Yes, Apple is simple, but there's a lot of cute little hidden things that you can do by combining option/apple under the right circumstance. I feel like I'm playing Super Mario Bros. and jumping wildly into the air to hit some hidden block.
- cm2187 11y ago
  I end up never using it. In fact it's a pain more than anything because it triggers in scenarios where I do not want to use 3d touch.
- CydeWeys 11y ago
  Discoverability is incredibly important though. I can see it being useful in games, but there's no reason it should be a core part of how normal apps function since it's not discoverable. Your average user is using over a dozen apps; absent UI clues, there's no way they are going to know which parts of each of the many different screens in each app can interact with it, and what specifically it'll do.
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. For me, the good use of the tech is shortcuts: It is great to force touch fantastical icon and directly create a new event rather than opening the app, going to the correct screen and then tapping the new event option. A lot of features on PCs have discoverability problems, I have, for example, encountered a few people that did not know the Ctrl/Cmd+A shortcut. But such features reward power users. I do not think that we can, at the same time, complain that the applications are getting dumbed down and oppose the additions of advanced, albeit hidden features.
    - zimpenfish 11y ago
      > So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. It gives you (a bit of) pressure sensitivity in painting apps (Sketches, Paper, Procreate).
      - yoz-y 11y ago
        How could I have forgotten that one? you are most certainly right! However, I would argue that this is the one case where there are actually no discoverability problems.
- vthallam 11y ago
  I have tried to let myself use the 3D touch a lot of times, but didn't really feel its useful. I wonder if it's just me that could not switch between the different type of gestures.
- baddox 11y ago
  I think it's a pretty cool input mechanism that could be used well, but I find Peak and Pop to be completely useless. What is the point of peaking? It's too slow for previewing a webpage. If you peak at a full-width photo (e.g. in a Facebook or Twitter feed) the preview isn't any bigger. I don't get it. It's always faster to just click the thing and swipe back to get back.
  - glhaynes 11y ago
    I tend to agree. I mostly use it to Peek at an object then swipe it up to reveal a menu of operations that can be performed on that object. That can be kind of handy.
Tloewald 11y ago
Although 3D touch is not widely supported (even by Apple's apps) the "trackpad" on the keyboard alone is worth it.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  Wow, I've had an iPhone 6S for months and didn't realize this existed. Maybe I should check the documentation, but this also highlights the discoverability problem of 3D Touch. I guess I need to get in the habit of trying to "3D Touch" all over the place to find new features?
  - bennyg 11y ago
    Wow, same here. Nifty little feature.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- ino 11y ago
  To the point that I get frustrated when I have to write on a phone without it. It's really nice to be able to move the cursor and select text so easily and fast. It feels like a hack.
- etrautmann 11y ago
  I couldn't agree more - this makes typing and correcting mistakes unbelievably easier.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  This is going a little off topic: But Microsoft's on-screen keyboard has the best trackpoint for doing that. Doesn't require 3D touch and works wonderfully. Looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg The blue dot is always there, but the four way arrows only appear after you press it, and you can drag further away to move faster, or closer to move slower. It is one of these things that after you use it you wonder why everyone hasn't copied it yet. Microsoft's keyboard is actually the best thing on Windows Mobile.
danieldk 11y ago
It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad I think it's more about segmentation. For people who prefer smaller phones, there is still a reason to go for an iPhone 6s with a higher price point anyway. If the se was exactly the same except screen size, it might cannibalize the 6s.
otterley 11y ago
It works reasonably well on the Apple Watch, where screen real estate for touching "objects" is minimal. Force-touching on the notifications view, for example, is the only way to clear all notifications. That said, I've never used it on the iPhone -- if anything, Force Touch only gave us some shortcuts to actions that long-time users have already acquired "muscle memory" to perform differently (and without significantly more steps).
- dreamfactory2 11y ago
  I hate it on the watch. I'm not that uncoordinated and always misfiring it and confused by what happens. For anyone actually disabled I'd imagine it must be a sick joke accessibility anti-pattern.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    I don't understand this. I have such an easy time with Force Touch but yet you're definitely not the first person I've heard say this. I can hit the Force Touch menus everywhere with 99% accuracy. Most people that I've seen do this seem to press really hard to try and activate it but it's much more subtle than that. It's even hard to describe but the activation isn't because of a harder touch, it's because of a "deeper" touch. At least that's how I was introduced to it and now I absolutely love it.
    - thought_alarm 11y ago
      I see two problems: 1. Speed. The delay between a force touch and the haptic feedback is often measured in seconds rather than milliseconds, particularly when the watch has been inactive for a period of time. That kind of delay is frankly outrageous. The haptic feedback needs to be instantaneous to be effective, even if it takes the actual software longer to wake up and respond. 2. Tap vs. Scroll. Unlike the iPhone, the Watch does an especially poor job of distinguishing between tap and scroll gestures. If your finger isn't perfectly still the software will treat it as a scroll gesture, and no amount of force will override it. Pairing those two behaviors can produce some frustrating user experiences. On the original iPhone, Apple did an amazing job of producing a very fluid and responsive UI on very humble and underpowered hardware. They've been less successful at doing the same with the Watch hardware.
mlex 11y ago
I wouldn't say 3D touch is entirely a bad feature. I agree with the argument that 3D touch features are usually hard to discover (took me a while to realize you could press the keyboard to get a "trackpad"). Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. It will be tough getting app developers to decide to implement 3D touch features when it isn't supported by everything, of course.
- pen2l 11y ago
  > Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. You can quickly switch apps using 3D Touch? How?
  - paxswill 11y ago
    Force-press the left edge of the screen, then swipe to the right. It can take a little bit of practice to get a hang of it. I find kinda rolling my thumb works well to trigger it. Swiping all the way across goes to the last app, just partway opens up the app switcher.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - bas 11y ago
      Did... not... know... this. Very cool.
    - carloscheddar 11y ago
      Wow that's amazing. I'll use this so much now.
    - samstave 11y ago
      What about killing a tab in chrome? In android, I could hit back and it would kill that tab and take me to the previous one, which works beautifully for Reddit. With iOS it's like five clicks to get back to the previous tab.
spike021 11y ago
Not sure if this is what you meant, but the SE probably isn't meant to be the flagship phone for Apple this year.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  They didn't say it was, what they said was: > The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. They're talking about removing it from the flagships in the FUTURE. Specifically the 7 and 7 Plus later this year.
  - spike021 11y ago
    Yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure what they meant, as in they didn't specify future phones or not.
coldtea 11y ago
>It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. What? They regularly withhold features from cheaper versions to achieve better margins and lower the cost, nothing about them being bad. And nothing about 3D Touch being bad. Where did you ever get that?
hellofunk 11y ago
The Force Touch on the trackpads is a fantastic step forward in UI interactivity. Haven't tried it on touchscreens but I think it would be great as well.
Geee 11y ago
Chances are they will remove the physical home button in iPhone 7 and replace it with 3D touch. At least there is one use case for it then.
tcfunk 11y ago
I'm seriously surprised at the amount of hate on here for 3D touch. I've been waiting for pressure-sensitive interfaces on phones since they came out! And now it's here and everyone hates it! I for one hope they keep it around and just work to improve it's accuracy and discoverability in future iterations.

yoz-y 11y ago

Says who? 3D touch is an awesome addition. Granted it has discoverability problems but I think that adding a new dimension to the interaction is great. It is a nice way to avoid a cluttered interface while providing advanced power-user functionality.

cwbrandsma 11y ago
Says who? 3D touch is a horrible addition. It has lots of discoverability problems and is inconsistent across applications. We avoid cluttering the interface by adding easter eggs to the interface for features that everyone would like to use.
- yoz-y 11y ago
  But people already CAN use those features, force touch is but a shortcut mechanism. If some applications uses it in a terrible way then that is not the Apple's problem (unless, of course, the app is made by Apple)
Throwaway23412 11y ago
If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. The current CEO of Apple is the former COO, someone well regarded for his prowess in managing Apple's supply chain and determining optimal cost per unit for Apple's products. If only a small percentage of customers use 3D Touch and 3D Touch adds a substantial cost per unit, I can see why Mr. Cook would disagree with 3D Touch being an awesome addition. I personally use 3D Touch to open links in new tabs in Safari, but that's only because 3D Touch interferes with the long press gesture.
- azinman2 11y ago
  Lots of Apple products have things that only power users can find/use, even under Jobs. The design philosophy is that it's not require to use, but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing.
  - mehwoot 11y ago
    but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing. Yeah, but there is a difference between a software feature that, once written, would generally take more effort to remove, and a hardware feature that costs money for every unit you ship.
- PopsiclePete 11y ago
  >If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. That seems to be a thing with Apple in general. For example, I just recently discovered that by holding "option" while clicking the "Format" drop-down on the Preview program's Export screen, you can get additional formats to appear, magically. For "advanced" users I'm guessing? How the hell was I supposed to know that ??? Where else can I see additional things by holding down "option" ??? Yes, Apple is simple, but there's a lot of cute little hidden things that you can do by combining option/apple under the right circumstance. I feel like I'm playing Super Mario Bros. and jumping wildly into the air to hit some hidden block.
cm2187 11y ago
I end up never using it. In fact it's a pain more than anything because it triggers in scenarios where I do not want to use 3d touch.
CydeWeys 11y ago
Discoverability is incredibly important though. I can see it being useful in games, but there's no reason it should be a core part of how normal apps function since it's not discoverable. Your average user is using over a dozen apps; absent UI clues, there's no way they are going to know which parts of each of the many different screens in each app can interact with it, and what specifically it'll do.
- yoz-y 11y ago
  So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. For me, the good use of the tech is shortcuts: It is great to force touch fantastical icon and directly create a new event rather than opening the app, going to the correct screen and then tapping the new event option. A lot of features on PCs have discoverability problems, I have, for example, encountered a few people that did not know the Ctrl/Cmd+A shortcut. But such features reward power users. I do not think that we can, at the same time, complain that the applications are getting dumbed down and oppose the additions of advanced, albeit hidden features.
  - zimpenfish 11y ago
    > So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. It gives you (a bit of) pressure sensitivity in painting apps (Sketches, Paper, Procreate).
    - yoz-y 11y ago
      How could I have forgotten that one? you are most certainly right! However, I would argue that this is the one case where there are actually no discoverability problems.
vthallam 11y ago
I have tried to let myself use the 3D touch a lot of times, but didn't really feel its useful. I wonder if it's just me that could not switch between the different type of gestures.
baddox 11y ago
I think it's a pretty cool input mechanism that could be used well, but I find Peak and Pop to be completely useless. What is the point of peaking? It's too slow for previewing a webpage. If you peak at a full-width photo (e.g. in a Facebook or Twitter feed) the preview isn't any bigger. I don't get it. It's always faster to just click the thing and swipe back to get back.
- glhaynes 11y ago
  I tend to agree. I mostly use it to Peek at an object then swipe it up to reveal a menu of operations that can be performed on that object. That can be kind of handy.

Tloewald 11y ago

Although 3D touch is not widely supported (even by Apple's apps) the "trackpad" on the keyboard alone is worth it.

tlrobinson 11y ago
Wow, I've had an iPhone 6S for months and didn't realize this existed. Maybe I should check the documentation, but this also highlights the discoverability problem of 3D Touch. I guess I need to get in the habit of trying to "3D Touch" all over the place to find new features?
- bennyg 11y ago
  Wow, same here. Nifty little feature.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ino 11y ago
To the point that I get frustrated when I have to write on a phone without it. It's really nice to be able to move the cursor and select text so easily and fast. It feels like a hack.
etrautmann 11y ago
I couldn't agree more - this makes typing and correcting mistakes unbelievably easier.
Someone1234 11y ago
This is going a little off topic: But Microsoft's on-screen keyboard has the best trackpoint for doing that. Doesn't require 3D touch and works wonderfully. Looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg The blue dot is always there, but the four way arrows only appear after you press it, and you can drag further away to move faster, or closer to move slower. It is one of these things that after you use it you wonder why everyone hasn't copied it yet. Microsoft's keyboard is actually the best thing on Windows Mobile.

danieldk 11y ago

It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad I think it's more about segmentation. For people who prefer smaller phones, there is still a reason to go for an iPhone 6s with a higher price point anyway. If the se was exactly the same except screen size, it might cannibalize the 6s.

otterley 11y ago

It works reasonably well on the Apple Watch, where screen real estate for touching "objects" is minimal. Force-touching on the notifications view, for example, is the only way to clear all notifications. That said, I've never used it on the iPhone -- if anything, Force Touch only gave us some shortcuts to actions that long-time users have already acquired "muscle memory" to perform differently (and without significantly more steps).

dreamfactory2 11y ago
I hate it on the watch. I'm not that uncoordinated and always misfiring it and confused by what happens. For anyone actually disabled I'd imagine it must be a sick joke accessibility anti-pattern.
- dkonofalski 11y ago
  I don't understand this. I have such an easy time with Force Touch but yet you're definitely not the first person I've heard say this. I can hit the Force Touch menus everywhere with 99% accuracy. Most people that I've seen do this seem to press really hard to try and activate it but it's much more subtle than that. It's even hard to describe but the activation isn't because of a harder touch, it's because of a "deeper" touch. At least that's how I was introduced to it and now I absolutely love it.
  - thought_alarm 11y ago
    I see two problems: 1. Speed. The delay between a force touch and the haptic feedback is often measured in seconds rather than milliseconds, particularly when the watch has been inactive for a period of time. That kind of delay is frankly outrageous. The haptic feedback needs to be instantaneous to be effective, even if it takes the actual software longer to wake up and respond. 2. Tap vs. Scroll. Unlike the iPhone, the Watch does an especially poor job of distinguishing between tap and scroll gestures. If your finger isn't perfectly still the software will treat it as a scroll gesture, and no amount of force will override it. Pairing those two behaviors can produce some frustrating user experiences. On the original iPhone, Apple did an amazing job of producing a very fluid and responsive UI on very humble and underpowered hardware. They've been less successful at doing the same with the Watch hardware.

mlex 11y ago

I wouldn't say 3D touch is entirely a bad feature. I agree with the argument that 3D touch features are usually hard to discover (took me a while to realize you could press the keyboard to get a "trackpad"). Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. It will be tough getting app developers to decide to implement 3D touch features when it isn't supported by everything, of course.

pen2l 11y ago
> Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. You can quickly switch apps using 3D Touch? How?
- paxswill 11y ago
  Force-press the left edge of the screen, then swipe to the right. It can take a little bit of practice to get a hang of it. I find kinda rolling my thumb works well to trigger it. Swiping all the way across goes to the last app, just partway opens up the app switcher.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - bas 11y ago
    Did... not... know... this. Very cool.
  - carloscheddar 11y ago
    Wow that's amazing. I'll use this so much now.
  - samstave 11y ago
    What about killing a tab in chrome? In android, I could hit back and it would kill that tab and take me to the previous one, which works beautifully for Reddit. With iOS it's like five clicks to get back to the previous tab.

spike021 11y ago

Not sure if this is what you meant, but the SE probably isn't meant to be the flagship phone for Apple this year.

Someone1234 11y ago
They didn't say it was, what they said was: > The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. They're talking about removing it from the flagships in the FUTURE. Specifically the 7 and 7 Plus later this year.
- spike021 11y ago
  Yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure what they meant, as in they didn't specify future phones or not.

coldtea 11y ago

>It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. What? They regularly withhold features from cheaper versions to achieve better margins and lower the cost, nothing about them being bad. And nothing about 3D Touch being bad. Where did you ever get that?

hellofunk 11y ago

The Force Touch on the trackpads is a fantastic step forward in UI interactivity. Haven't tried it on touchscreens but I think it would be great as well.

Geee 11y ago

Chances are they will remove the physical home button in iPhone 7 and replace it with 3D touch. At least there is one use case for it then.

tcfunk 11y ago

I'm seriously surprised at the amount of hate on here for 3D touch. I've been waiting for pressure-sensitive interfaces on phones since they came out! And now it's here and everyone hates it! I for one hope they keep it around and just work to improve it's accuracy and discoverability in future iterations.