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No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. You'd think they'd want to shore up their devices to be completely compatible with this across the spectrum to motivat

No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. You'd think they'd want to shore up their devices to be completely compatible with this across the spectrum to motivate developers to use it as a key part of their UX. Now when only X<80% of devices lack compatibility, I'm not likely to take the time to make 3D Touch a core interaction. So your apps have to optionally use 3D Touch, Pencil, adaptive layout, fingerprint, and several other interactions that only cover fractions of their hardware line.

Negitivefrags 11y ago
It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. Companies really hate admitting they were wrong so my bet is that they are stuck with it for the forseeable future.
- yoz-y 11y ago
  Says who? 3D touch is an awesome addition. Granted it has discoverability problems but I think that adding a new dimension to the interaction is great. It is a nice way to avoid a cluttered interface while providing advanced power-user functionality.
  - cwbrandsma 11y ago
    Says who? 3D touch is a horrible addition. It has lots of discoverability problems and is inconsistent across applications. We avoid cluttering the interface by adding easter eggs to the interface for features that everyone would like to use.
    - yoz-y 11y ago
      But people already CAN use those features, force touch is but a shortcut mechanism. If some applications uses it in a terrible way then that is not the Apple's problem (unless, of course, the app is made by Apple)
  - Throwaway23412 11y ago
    If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. The current CEO of Apple is the former COO, someone well regarded for his prowess in managing Apple's supply chain and determining optimal cost per unit for Apple's products. If only a small percentage of customers use 3D Touch and 3D Touch adds a substantial cost per unit, I can see why Mr. Cook would disagree with 3D Touch being an awesome addition. I personally use 3D Touch to open links in new tabs in Safari, but that's only because 3D Touch interferes with the long press gesture.
    - azinman2 11y ago
      Lots of Apple products have things that only power users can find/use, even under Jobs. The design philosophy is that it's not require to use, but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing.
      - mehwoot 11y ago
        but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing. Yeah, but there is a difference between a software feature that, once written, would generally take more effort to remove, and a hardware feature that costs money for every unit you ship.
    - PopsiclePete 11y ago
      >If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. That seems to be a thing with Apple in general. For example, I just recently discovered that by holding "option" while clicking the "Format" drop-down on the Preview program's Export screen, you can get additional formats to appear, magically. For "advanced" users I'm guessing? How the hell was I supposed to know that ??? Where else can I see additional things by holding down "option" ??? Yes, Apple is simple, but there's a lot of cute little hidden things that you can do by combining option/apple under the right circumstance. I feel like I'm playing Super Mario Bros. and jumping wildly into the air to hit some hidden block.
  - cm2187 11y ago
    I end up never using it. In fact it's a pain more than anything because it triggers in scenarios where I do not want to use 3d touch.
  - CydeWeys 11y ago
    Discoverability is incredibly important though. I can see it being useful in games, but there's no reason it should be a core part of how normal apps function since it's not discoverable. Your average user is using over a dozen apps; absent UI clues, there's no way they are going to know which parts of each of the many different screens in each app can interact with it, and what specifically it'll do.
    - yoz-y 11y ago
      So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. For me, the good use of the tech is shortcuts: It is great to force touch fantastical icon and directly create a new event rather than opening the app, going to the correct screen and then tapping the new event option. A lot of features on PCs have discoverability problems, I have, for example, encountered a few people that did not know the Ctrl/Cmd+A shortcut. But such features reward power users. I do not think that we can, at the same time, complain that the applications are getting dumbed down and oppose the additions of advanced, albeit hidden features.
      - zimpenfish 11y ago
        > So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. It gives you (a bit of) pressure sensitivity in painting apps (Sketches, Paper, Procreate).
        yoz-y 11y ago
        How could I have forgotten that one? you are most certainly right! However, I would argue that this is the one case where there are actually no discoverability problems.
  - vthallam 11y ago
    I have tried to let myself use the 3D touch a lot of times, but didn't really feel its useful. I wonder if it's just me that could not switch between the different type of gestures.
  - baddox 11y ago
    I think it's a pretty cool input mechanism that could be used well, but I find Peak and Pop to be completely useless. What is the point of peaking? It's too slow for previewing a webpage. If you peak at a full-width photo (e.g. in a Facebook or Twitter feed) the preview isn't any bigger. I don't get it. It's always faster to just click the thing and swipe back to get back.
    - glhaynes 11y ago
      I tend to agree. I mostly use it to Peek at an object then swipe it up to reveal a menu of operations that can be performed on that object. That can be kind of handy.
- Tloewald 11y ago
  Although 3D touch is not widely supported (even by Apple's apps) the "trackpad" on the keyboard alone is worth it.
  - tlrobinson 11y ago
    Wow, I've had an iPhone 6S for months and didn't realize this existed. Maybe I should check the documentation, but this also highlights the discoverability problem of 3D Touch. I guess I need to get in the habit of trying to "3D Touch" all over the place to find new features?
    - bennyg 11y ago
      Wow, same here. Nifty little feature.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - ino 11y ago
    To the point that I get frustrated when I have to write on a phone without it. It's really nice to be able to move the cursor and select text so easily and fast. It feels like a hack.
  - etrautmann 11y ago
    I couldn't agree more - this makes typing and correcting mistakes unbelievably easier.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    This is going a little off topic: But Microsoft's on-screen keyboard has the best trackpoint for doing that. Doesn't require 3D touch and works wonderfully. Looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg The blue dot is always there, but the four way arrows only appear after you press it, and you can drag further away to move faster, or closer to move slower. It is one of these things that after you use it you wonder why everyone hasn't copied it yet. Microsoft's keyboard is actually the best thing on Windows Mobile.
- danieldk 11y ago
  It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad I think it's more about segmentation. For people who prefer smaller phones, there is still a reason to go for an iPhone 6s with a higher price point anyway. If the se was exactly the same except screen size, it might cannibalize the 6s.
- otterley 11y ago
  It works reasonably well on the Apple Watch, where screen real estate for touching "objects" is minimal. Force-touching on the notifications view, for example, is the only way to clear all notifications. That said, I've never used it on the iPhone -- if anything, Force Touch only gave us some shortcuts to actions that long-time users have already acquired "muscle memory" to perform differently (and without significantly more steps).
  - dreamfactory2 11y ago
    I hate it on the watch. I'm not that uncoordinated and always misfiring it and confused by what happens. For anyone actually disabled I'd imagine it must be a sick joke accessibility anti-pattern.
    - dkonofalski 11y ago
      I don't understand this. I have such an easy time with Force Touch but yet you're definitely not the first person I've heard say this. I can hit the Force Touch menus everywhere with 99% accuracy. Most people that I've seen do this seem to press really hard to try and activate it but it's much more subtle than that. It's even hard to describe but the activation isn't because of a harder touch, it's because of a "deeper" touch. At least that's how I was introduced to it and now I absolutely love it.
      - thought_alarm 11y ago
        I see two problems: 1. Speed. The delay between a force touch and the haptic feedback is often measured in seconds rather than milliseconds, particularly when the watch has been inactive for a period of time. That kind of delay is frankly outrageous. The haptic feedback needs to be instantaneous to be effective, even if it takes the actual software longer to wake up and respond. 2. Tap vs. Scroll. Unlike the iPhone, the Watch does an especially poor job of distinguishing between tap and scroll gestures. If your finger isn't perfectly still the software will treat it as a scroll gesture, and no amount of force will override it. Pairing those two behaviors can produce some frustrating user experiences. On the original iPhone, Apple did an amazing job of producing a very fluid and responsive UI on very humble and underpowered hardware. They've been less successful at doing the same with the Watch hardware.
- mlex 11y ago
  I wouldn't say 3D touch is entirely a bad feature. I agree with the argument that 3D touch features are usually hard to discover (took me a while to realize you could press the keyboard to get a "trackpad"). Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. It will be tough getting app developers to decide to implement 3D touch features when it isn't supported by everything, of course.
  - pen2l 11y ago
    > Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. You can quickly switch apps using 3D Touch? How?
    - paxswill 11y ago
      Force-press the left edge of the screen, then swipe to the right. It can take a little bit of practice to get a hang of it. I find kinda rolling my thumb works well to trigger it. Swiping all the way across goes to the last app, just partway opens up the app switcher.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - bas 11y ago
        Did... not... know... this. Very cool.
      - carloscheddar 11y ago
        Wow that's amazing. I'll use this so much now.
      - samstave 11y ago
        What about killing a tab in chrome? In android, I could hit back and it would kill that tab and take me to the previous one, which works beautifully for Reddit. With iOS it's like five clicks to get back to the previous tab.
- spike021 11y ago
  Not sure if this is what you meant, but the SE probably isn't meant to be the flagship phone for Apple this year.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    They didn't say it was, what they said was: > The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. They're talking about removing it from the flagships in the FUTURE. Specifically the 7 and 7 Plus later this year.
    - spike021 11y ago
      Yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure what they meant, as in they didn't specify future phones or not.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. What? They regularly withhold features from cheaper versions to achieve better margins and lower the cost, nothing about them being bad. And nothing about 3D Touch being bad. Where did you ever get that?
- hellofunk 11y ago
  The Force Touch on the trackpads is a fantastic step forward in UI interactivity. Haven't tried it on touchscreens but I think it would be great as well.
- Geee 11y ago
  Chances are they will remove the physical home button in iPhone 7 and replace it with 3D touch. At least there is one use case for it then.
- tcfunk 11y ago
  I'm seriously surprised at the amount of hate on here for 3D touch. I've been waiting for pressure-sensitive interfaces on phones since they came out! And now it's here and everyone hates it! I for one hope they keep it around and just work to improve it's accuracy and discoverability in future iterations.
ricw 11y ago
Also a reason I won't be buying the SE, but will be holding out for the 7 instead or even get a 6S. If i'm to develop iPhone apps, I want the full set of UI tools at hand..
jbob2000 11y ago
3D touch was a gimmick anyways, I am happy to see it go. It was weird and uncanny and there were only a few applications where it made sense.
- jug 11y ago
  See it go? I'd wait for the iPhone 7 event to see if 3D Touch is left to the history books.
  - jbob2000 11y ago
    Phone companies copy the best features from each other. You didn't see apple implementing Samsung's "show your face to unlock your phone" feature because it was kinda slow and dumb. Likewise, I don't see any Android phones with 3D touch. Yet when front-facing cameras came out, EVERYONE jumped on that feature, now your phone is dead in the water without it. It was left to the history books the moment other manufacturers said 'meh, we don't need this right now'.
    - pfista 11y ago
      To be fair, some apps have implemented '3d' touch on android which is basically just a glorified long press, so you can at least access the same kind of ux purely through software.
      - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
        Pretty sure that UI feature predates 3d touch many years.
        skrowl 11y ago
        Android has had an API for getting pressure of a click since API level 5, which shipped with Android 2.0 "Eclair" in 2009 - https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/MotionEvent.html#getPressure() https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/MotionE... Several apps came out within days of the Apple 3D Touch announcement, such as https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.casual_dev.forcetouch https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.casual_dev..., that were installable and worked on existing Android phones. Since it was basically evidence of another Apple copy-paste, this information was basically ignored by iGizmodo / iVerge / etc, so many people think that Apple "invented" pressure-sensitive touch events, despite getting them a full 5 years after Android. I believe that the reason that pressure sensitive apps were met with a "meh" on Android is because long-click works great and people understand it. Click to do a thing, long-click to get a context menu on a thing. It works everywhere, even on many Apple-developed iOS apps that haven't been "upgraded" to 3D Touch yet.
inefficient 11y ago
Honestly, I suspect they did it first for cost and second because they want to make sure it is only used to add a quick way to do small things. I would honestly be surprised if they weren't worried from the beginning that it could end up being an abused, overcrowded right click menu. Not in including it here helps ensure that it won't be used to add features unavailable in another way.
- ohitsdom 11y ago
  > they want to make sure it is only used to add a quick way to do small things. I don't understand this point at all. What does it have to do with not including the feature on a smaller device? "Because it might be used too much" makes no sense.
  - iLoch 11y ago
    That's not a terrible theory. The UX of holding the screen down is terrible because it's completely hidden and requires you to guess. Not sure why they opted to include it in the first place.
    - ohitsdom 11y ago
      But why would that theory specifically apply to a smaller device, and not the 6S as well?
  - marshray 11y ago
    Whereas developers and hackers tend to like a surfeit of user interface features, the mass market is not as comfortable with it. Apple really likes to be the party in control of the degree of minimalism in the UI expressed by iOS devices.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    It's not "because it might be used too much," it's "because developers might bury tons of functions where no one will ever find them, because that's easier than designing a learnable/discoverable UI." Whether you agree with the argument depends on how much faith you have in developers/designers to understand how average users will experience and learn their software, and in whether they might go for the lazy "shove it in a contextual menu" solution even knowing that it's questionable at best. 3D touch is supposed to be a "power user" feature; if you don't know it's there you can get by just fine. It'll take you an extra half second to open an email. By holding it hostage on some new products, Apple can hope for more developers to say "I'll use this for time-saving shortcuts and other convenience features since the iPhone SE users don't have it." Once best-practices for that are more ingrained and many apps have implemented it in a way that lines up with Apple's vision, there's less risk of buried features when they eventually include 3D touch across the lineup.
Eric_WVGG 11y ago
There have been ongoing rumors of supply chain issues for 3D Touch parts going all the way back to the 6S announcement.
coldtea 11y ago
>No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. You'd think they'd want to shore up their devices to be completely compatible with this across the spectrum to motivate developers to use it as a key part of their UX. 1) 3D Touch is not that important a part of the UI anyway, as devices are fully functional without it. 2) Developers will add it to their apps anyway, to entice high end users -- it's a very competitive landscape for apps, so they can't afford not too, even if it's only in half the new iPhone models. 3) Eventually it will be present to all devices anyway. In the meantime, the cheaper SE models allows Apple to cater better to places like India without sacrificing much.
- randyrand 11y ago
  > as devices are fully functional without it. Depends on how the app is programmed.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Yes, but I've never seen any app, including Apples, that solely relies on it. Still, there might be 10 of such apps out there. But I doubt there will be 100.
- theli0nheart 11y ago
  > 2) Developers will add it to their apps anyway, to entice high end users -- it's a very competitive landscape for apps, so they can't afford not too, even if it's only in half the new iPhone models. App developer here. Patently false. I actually haven't implemented 3D touch in any app. Want to guess how many support requests I've received for it? Zero.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >App developer here. Patently false. I actually haven't implemented 3D touch in any app. Want to guess how many support requests I've received for it? Zero. Well, I said "will add it to their apps anyway", Not "already have added it". And I'm talking about flagship apps , the kind everyone has on their home screens, not any random app or developer. It's not a "no true scotchman" either. Obviously I know that not all of the smaller/casual/fart/etc apps are gonna get it -- heck, I've got several old apps that haven't been updated for even for far more important changes (like Retina assets or larger screen sizes). So, if you make "Funtime Googly Eyes" or "Milan Metro timetables" you might not add 3D Touch. But apps like Facebook, Twitter, Gmaps, Dropbox, Gmail, Evernote, Instamatic, Flipboard, Procreate, VSCO, etc, are sure gonna add it. (and lots of smaller apps wanting to differentiate themselves too, but all the big ones are getting it sooner or later -- some already have).
incepted 11y ago
> No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. Indeed. I see this as a sign that 3D touch is not getting much traction.
fudged71 11y ago
3D Touch is confusing enough as-is for new users... Now you don't even know which devices support it. Very frustrating from the UX standpoint.
timpark 11y ago
I haven't tried it, but this library claims to emulate 3D touch on non-3D touch devices by checking UITouch's majorRadius value. https://github.com/marmelroy/PeekPop https://github.com/marmelroy/PeekPop
makecheck 11y ago
You know, until you mentioned it just now, I’d forgotten my phone even has 3D Touch. It had been literally weeks since I last thought to use force-touch for anything, mostly because there is zero indication where it will work. And it is half-baked in the sense that when I do activate 3D Touch, it’s usually by accident. It is almost the same gesture as deleting apps on the home screen! I go to delete an app, press-and-hold a little too long and instead of squiggly icons with delete buttons I get...a menu? And usually I get that the 2nd time I try, too. Force-touch badly needs something to make it obvious, and they need to work a lot harder on making it not overlap with anything else. Ironically, for an interface that loves gratuitous animation, force-touchable objects might have made a lot more sense with some fancy appearance or animation and they have none.
- ino 11y ago
  Start using the keyboard trackpad for moving the cursor, selecting and deleting words, paragraphs or the whole text input. It's the killer app.
  - rohankshir 11y ago
    holy shit
  - makecheck 11y ago
    Well, I forget to use it on the keyboard too. :) And the keyboard has exactly the same problem; force-touch uses space that already has a purpose and a gesture that is somewhat similar to that of the normal keyboard function. I tried it just now and there is a decent chance I will start typing random characters instead of activating it. That, to me, is a failure of an interface. I will admit that once activated correctly, the mini-trackpad is a better method for moving the cursor (although, almost anything could improve over the default text editing on iOS).
  - SonicSoul 11y ago
    wow nice! I was only aware of the call button (useless 3 contact shortcut) and app store instant search. this is almost like a Easter egg.
abalone 11y ago
It's not fragmentation. Pencil and 3D Touch were designed as optional features from the get-go. It makes perfect sense to reserve them for their premium devices. Fragmentation is more like when apps run poorly on less popular Android phones because of all the differences (screen sizes, performance characteristics, etc.). But optional features like 3D Touch peek/pop aren't really essential to make apps run well. They're bonuses. And there's literally tens millions of people who can use 3D Touch already, so it's an optional feature probably worth implementing. And if you're building a design app it makes complete sense to support the Pencil, which is specifically targeted at that niche. Also you're mistaken about Touch ID and adaptive layout. Touch ID is standard across all current devices, and adaptive layout helps you support them all with minimal work.
- toufka 11y ago
  It's curious that the smaller phone is not a 'pro' device. I just want it to be smaller, not less powerful or even less expensive. There are of course size which limitations which dictate that smaller devices cannot cram all capabilities into the same space. But to the extent that is not true, let me pay for a powerful small iPhone.
  - abalone 11y ago
    Apple wanted to create an up-to-date budget device. What you're describing would be cool, but it's just not the market that Apple was targeting.
  - khedoros 11y ago
    I'd like that; a 4"-4.5" flagship-level device. Small hardware shouldn't be relegated to the bargain bin.
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    I'm in the same boat. Updated year after year and got all of them up to the 5s. The 6 form factor annoys me, too big to hold it confortably and too small to actually replace the ipad. Wouldn't pay premium proce for the c device of a generation past, this se perfectly fits the bill of what a smartphone should be to me
afoxtron 11y ago
It's kind of a shame to see so much hate for a neat feature. I think a lot of non developers gave Apple shit for 3D touch as just another gimmick because they don't see the fundamental interaction problem that it solved. Long holds on mobile are excruciating interactions for people, and 3D touch fixes that. It allows the user to reach a deeper level of contextual actions, without forcing them to wait like a long tap and hold does. Anything that empowers the user like that is a huge win in my mind. I really hope apple sticks with it moving forward. As a developer I have been having a blast coming up with new and interesting ways to use it that legitimately increase a user's satisfaction and the usefulness of an app.
- nicky0 11y ago
  In my view it would have been OK if force touch had been equivalent to a long hold. The problem is that force touch and long hold do different things.
  - derefr 11y ago
    In my view, a long hold was always basically a "secondary click"—but Apple didn't use it for much, since it was so tedious. So, rather than getting a menu, it mostly served to activate a single important secondary function on the item. (And devs came up with different solutions for menus, like side-swiping in list-views; and modal multi-select, with additional actions to apply to selected results.) Force touch, on the other hand, isn't tedious, so it does what Apple wanted to do: it gives you a menu. I would expect that whatever a long hold does to an item should also be a thing on that menu. You could think of a long hold, then, as the "default secondary action"—like how shell object handlers in Windows use their "default primary action" from their context menu when double-clicked.
- theinternetman 11y ago
  >Long holds on mobile are excruciating interactions for people, and 3D touch fixes that But it doesn't provide an easier way to access long hold functionality, instead of provides different functionality that could be activated accidentally instead of long hold functionality. e.g it doesn't make deleting apps less tedious, it instead adds a shortcut menu you might activate by accident when trying to delete the app.
feelix 11y ago
And although 3D Touch is almost entirely unused by almost everybody as far as I can tell, the actual physical implementation of it is brilliant. I wrote this: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3d-touch-explorer/id1060346713 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3d-touch-explorer/id10603467... to demonstrate it (source code here: https://github.com/benslaney/3D-Touch-Explorer https://github.com/benslaney/3D-Touch-Explorer). The amount of granularity and the sensitivity of it - equal all over the screen - is crazy.
capkutay 11y ago
From a product standpoint it doesn't really make sense. Maybe they're just refurbishing old iPhone 5's and they can't build in the 3D touch capability.
m_mueller 11y ago
There's a good technical reason why it's not on their 4inch phone - lack of space, which AFAIK that sensor takes quite a bit. There's not a good reason why it's not on their iPad Pro lineup, their biggest and (at least for part of the lineup) most expensive iOS devices.
- jevinskie 11y ago
  Perhaps the reason for lack of 3D Touch on the iPad Pros is that it is too much space, and the sensing technology doesn't scale well enough?
  - m_mueller 11y ago
    That's an interesting point, I haven't yet thought of that. Could be. Maybe you'd need a whole array of these sensors behind the screen at different positions.
NamTaf 11y ago
I don't understand why everyone is ignoring the simple answer that no 3D touch is simply a result of the same 5S screen being used? Presumably 3D touch requires a haptic layer on the screen so if that's not present, it can't exist.
- NamTaf 11y ago
  Dare I ask why I'm being downvoted? As far as I can tell, [1] suggests that there's additional hardware involved in the screen to make 3D touch work. Is it that this hardware exists but just isn't being used? Is it that people think it's a trivial addition to revise the 4" screen to include this hardware and that Apple were just lazy? I'm genuinely curious, because I have not seen anyone say "hey maybe they just used the same screen as the 5S and that's why 3D touch is left off" but I have seen a lot of "I don't understand why Apple neglected to include 3D touch in the SE". [1]: http://www.apple.com/au/iphone-6s/3d-touch/ http://www.apple.com/au/iphone-6s/3d-touch/
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

Negitivefrags 11y ago

It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. Companies really hate admitting they were wrong so my bet is that they are stuck with it for the forseeable future.

yoz-y 11y ago
Says who? 3D touch is an awesome addition. Granted it has discoverability problems but I think that adding a new dimension to the interaction is great. It is a nice way to avoid a cluttered interface while providing advanced power-user functionality.
- cwbrandsma 11y ago
  Says who? 3D touch is a horrible addition. It has lots of discoverability problems and is inconsistent across applications. We avoid cluttering the interface by adding easter eggs to the interface for features that everyone would like to use.
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    But people already CAN use those features, force touch is but a shortcut mechanism. If some applications uses it in a terrible way then that is not the Apple's problem (unless, of course, the app is made by Apple)
- Throwaway23412 11y ago
  If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. The current CEO of Apple is the former COO, someone well regarded for his prowess in managing Apple's supply chain and determining optimal cost per unit for Apple's products. If only a small percentage of customers use 3D Touch and 3D Touch adds a substantial cost per unit, I can see why Mr. Cook would disagree with 3D Touch being an awesome addition. I personally use 3D Touch to open links in new tabs in Safari, but that's only because 3D Touch interferes with the long press gesture.
  - azinman2 11y ago
    Lots of Apple products have things that only power users can find/use, even under Jobs. The design philosophy is that it's not require to use, but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing.
    - mehwoot 11y ago
      but it's there if you want it and know what you're doing. Yeah, but there is a difference between a software feature that, once written, would generally take more effort to remove, and a hardware feature that costs money for every unit you ship.
  - PopsiclePete 11y ago
    >If an expensive feature has discoverability problems, it probably doesn't sound awesome from Apple's perspective. That seems to be a thing with Apple in general. For example, I just recently discovered that by holding "option" while clicking the "Format" drop-down on the Preview program's Export screen, you can get additional formats to appear, magically. For "advanced" users I'm guessing? How the hell was I supposed to know that ??? Where else can I see additional things by holding down "option" ??? Yes, Apple is simple, but there's a lot of cute little hidden things that you can do by combining option/apple under the right circumstance. I feel like I'm playing Super Mario Bros. and jumping wildly into the air to hit some hidden block.
- cm2187 11y ago
  I end up never using it. In fact it's a pain more than anything because it triggers in scenarios where I do not want to use 3d touch.
- CydeWeys 11y ago
  Discoverability is incredibly important though. I can see it being useful in games, but there's no reason it should be a core part of how normal apps function since it's not discoverable. Your average user is using over a dozen apps; absent UI clues, there's no way they are going to know which parts of each of the many different screens in each app can interact with it, and what specifically it'll do.
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. For me, the good use of the tech is shortcuts: It is great to force touch fantastical icon and directly create a new event rather than opening the app, going to the correct screen and then tapping the new event option. A lot of features on PCs have discoverability problems, I have, for example, encountered a few people that did not know the Ctrl/Cmd+A shortcut. But such features reward power users. I do not think that we can, at the same time, complain that the applications are getting dumbed down and oppose the additions of advanced, albeit hidden features.
    - zimpenfish 11y ago
      > So far I have yet to discover an application that has a 3D touch function which is inaccessible otherwise. It gives you (a bit of) pressure sensitivity in painting apps (Sketches, Paper, Procreate).
      - yoz-y 11y ago
        How could I have forgotten that one? you are most certainly right! However, I would argue that this is the one case where there are actually no discoverability problems.
- vthallam 11y ago
  I have tried to let myself use the 3D touch a lot of times, but didn't really feel its useful. I wonder if it's just me that could not switch between the different type of gestures.
- baddox 11y ago
  I think it's a pretty cool input mechanism that could be used well, but I find Peak and Pop to be completely useless. What is the point of peaking? It's too slow for previewing a webpage. If you peak at a full-width photo (e.g. in a Facebook or Twitter feed) the preview isn't any bigger. I don't get it. It's always faster to just click the thing and swipe back to get back.
  - glhaynes 11y ago
    I tend to agree. I mostly use it to Peek at an object then swipe it up to reveal a menu of operations that can be performed on that object. That can be kind of handy.
Tloewald 11y ago
Although 3D touch is not widely supported (even by Apple's apps) the "trackpad" on the keyboard alone is worth it.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  Wow, I've had an iPhone 6S for months and didn't realize this existed. Maybe I should check the documentation, but this also highlights the discoverability problem of 3D Touch. I guess I need to get in the habit of trying to "3D Touch" all over the place to find new features?
  - bennyg 11y ago
    Wow, same here. Nifty little feature.
  - deleted 11y ago
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- ino 11y ago
  To the point that I get frustrated when I have to write on a phone without it. It's really nice to be able to move the cursor and select text so easily and fast. It feels like a hack.
- etrautmann 11y ago
  I couldn't agree more - this makes typing and correcting mistakes unbelievably easier.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  This is going a little off topic: But Microsoft's on-screen keyboard has the best trackpoint for doing that. Doesn't require 3D touch and works wonderfully. Looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg The blue dot is always there, but the four way arrows only appear after you press it, and you can drag further away to move faster, or closer to move slower. It is one of these things that after you use it you wonder why everyone hasn't copied it yet. Microsoft's keyboard is actually the best thing on Windows Mobile.
danieldk 11y ago
It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad I think it's more about segmentation. For people who prefer smaller phones, there is still a reason to go for an iPhone 6s with a higher price point anyway. If the se was exactly the same except screen size, it might cannibalize the 6s.
otterley 11y ago
It works reasonably well on the Apple Watch, where screen real estate for touching "objects" is minimal. Force-touching on the notifications view, for example, is the only way to clear all notifications. That said, I've never used it on the iPhone -- if anything, Force Touch only gave us some shortcuts to actions that long-time users have already acquired "muscle memory" to perform differently (and without significantly more steps).
- dreamfactory2 11y ago
  I hate it on the watch. I'm not that uncoordinated and always misfiring it and confused by what happens. For anyone actually disabled I'd imagine it must be a sick joke accessibility anti-pattern.
  - dkonofalski 11y ago
    I don't understand this. I have such an easy time with Force Touch but yet you're definitely not the first person I've heard say this. I can hit the Force Touch menus everywhere with 99% accuracy. Most people that I've seen do this seem to press really hard to try and activate it but it's much more subtle than that. It's even hard to describe but the activation isn't because of a harder touch, it's because of a "deeper" touch. At least that's how I was introduced to it and now I absolutely love it.
    - thought_alarm 11y ago
      I see two problems: 1. Speed. The delay between a force touch and the haptic feedback is often measured in seconds rather than milliseconds, particularly when the watch has been inactive for a period of time. That kind of delay is frankly outrageous. The haptic feedback needs to be instantaneous to be effective, even if it takes the actual software longer to wake up and respond. 2. Tap vs. Scroll. Unlike the iPhone, the Watch does an especially poor job of distinguishing between tap and scroll gestures. If your finger isn't perfectly still the software will treat it as a scroll gesture, and no amount of force will override it. Pairing those two behaviors can produce some frustrating user experiences. On the original iPhone, Apple did an amazing job of producing a very fluid and responsive UI on very humble and underpowered hardware. They've been less successful at doing the same with the Watch hardware.
mlex 11y ago
I wouldn't say 3D touch is entirely a bad feature. I agree with the argument that 3D touch features are usually hard to discover (took me a while to realize you could press the keyboard to get a "trackpad"). Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. It will be tough getting app developers to decide to implement 3D touch features when it isn't supported by everything, of course.
- pen2l 11y ago
  > Some of the features you get from it are nice little quality-of-life things though, like quick app switching. You can quickly switch apps using 3D Touch? How?
  - paxswill 11y ago
    Force-press the left edge of the screen, then swipe to the right. It can take a little bit of practice to get a hang of it. I find kinda rolling my thumb works well to trigger it. Swiping all the way across goes to the last app, just partway opens up the app switcher.
    - deleted 11y ago
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    - bas 11y ago
      Did... not... know... this. Very cool.
    - carloscheddar 11y ago
      Wow that's amazing. I'll use this so much now.
    - samstave 11y ago
      What about killing a tab in chrome? In android, I could hit back and it would kill that tab and take me to the previous one, which works beautifully for Reddit. With iOS it's like five clicks to get back to the previous tab.
spike021 11y ago
Not sure if this is what you meant, but the SE probably isn't meant to be the flagship phone for Apple this year.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  They didn't say it was, what they said was: > The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. They're talking about removing it from the flagships in the FUTURE. Specifically the 7 and 7 Plus later this year.
  - spike021 11y ago
    Yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure what they meant, as in they didn't specify future phones or not.
coldtea 11y ago
>It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive feature to add to a phone. What? They regularly withhold features from cheaper versions to achieve better margins and lower the cost, nothing about them being bad. And nothing about 3D Touch being bad. Where did you ever get that?
hellofunk 11y ago
The Force Touch on the trackpads is a fantastic step forward in UI interactivity. Haven't tried it on touchscreens but I think it would be great as well.
Geee 11y ago
Chances are they will remove the physical home button in iPhone 7 and replace it with 3D touch. At least there is one use case for it then.
tcfunk 11y ago
I'm seriously surprised at the amount of hate on here for 3D touch. I've been waiting for pressure-sensitive interfaces on phones since they came out! And now it's here and everyone hates it! I for one hope they keep it around and just work to improve it's accuracy and discoverability in future iterations.

ricw 11y ago

Also a reason I won't be buying the SE, but will be holding out for the 7 instead or even get a 6S. If i'm to develop iPhone apps, I want the full set of UI tools at hand..

jbob2000 11y ago

3D touch was a gimmick anyways, I am happy to see it go. It was weird and uncanny and there were only a few applications where it made sense.

jug 11y ago
See it go? I'd wait for the iPhone 7 event to see if 3D Touch is left to the history books.
- jbob2000 11y ago
  Phone companies copy the best features from each other. You didn't see apple implementing Samsung's "show your face to unlock your phone" feature because it was kinda slow and dumb. Likewise, I don't see any Android phones with 3D touch. Yet when front-facing cameras came out, EVERYONE jumped on that feature, now your phone is dead in the water without it. It was left to the history books the moment other manufacturers said 'meh, we don't need this right now'.
  - pfista 11y ago
    To be fair, some apps have implemented '3d' touch on android which is basically just a glorified long press, so you can at least access the same kind of ux purely through software.
    - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
      Pretty sure that UI feature predates 3d touch many years.
      - skrowl 11y ago
        Android has had an API for getting pressure of a click since API level 5, which shipped with Android 2.0 "Eclair" in 2009 - https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/MotionEvent.html#getPressure() https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/MotionE... Several apps came out within days of the Apple 3D Touch announcement, such as https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.casual_dev.forcetouch https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.casual_dev..., that were installable and worked on existing Android phones. Since it was basically evidence of another Apple copy-paste, this information was basically ignored by iGizmodo / iVerge / etc, so many people think that Apple "invented" pressure-sensitive touch events, despite getting them a full 5 years after Android. I believe that the reason that pressure sensitive apps were met with a "meh" on Android is because long-click works great and people understand it. Click to do a thing, long-click to get a context menu on a thing. It works everywhere, even on many Apple-developed iOS apps that haven't been "upgraded" to 3D Touch yet.

inefficient 11y ago

Honestly, I suspect they did it first for cost and second because they want to make sure it is only used to add a quick way to do small things. I would honestly be surprised if they weren't worried from the beginning that it could end up being an abused, overcrowded right click menu. Not in including it here helps ensure that it won't be used to add features unavailable in another way.

ohitsdom 11y ago
> they want to make sure it is only used to add a quick way to do small things. I don't understand this point at all. What does it have to do with not including the feature on a smaller device? "Because it might be used too much" makes no sense.
- iLoch 11y ago
  That's not a terrible theory. The UX of holding the screen down is terrible because it's completely hidden and requires you to guess. Not sure why they opted to include it in the first place.
  - ohitsdom 11y ago
    But why would that theory specifically apply to a smaller device, and not the 6S as well?
- marshray 11y ago
  Whereas developers and hackers tend to like a surfeit of user interface features, the mass market is not as comfortable with it. Apple really likes to be the party in control of the degree of minimalism in the UI expressed by iOS devices.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  It's not "because it might be used too much," it's "because developers might bury tons of functions where no one will ever find them, because that's easier than designing a learnable/discoverable UI." Whether you agree with the argument depends on how much faith you have in developers/designers to understand how average users will experience and learn their software, and in whether they might go for the lazy "shove it in a contextual menu" solution even knowing that it's questionable at best. 3D touch is supposed to be a "power user" feature; if you don't know it's there you can get by just fine. It'll take you an extra half second to open an email. By holding it hostage on some new products, Apple can hope for more developers to say "I'll use this for time-saving shortcuts and other convenience features since the iPhone SE users don't have it." Once best-practices for that are more ingrained and many apps have implemented it in a way that lines up with Apple's vision, there's less risk of buried features when they eventually include 3D touch across the lineup.

Eric_WVGG 11y ago

There have been ongoing rumors of supply chain issues for 3D Touch parts going all the way back to the 6S announcement.

coldtea 11y ago

>No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. You'd think they'd want to shore up their devices to be completely compatible with this across the spectrum to motivate developers to use it as a key part of their UX. 1) 3D Touch is not that important a part of the UI anyway, as devices are fully functional without it. 2) Developers will add it to their apps anyway, to entice high end users -- it's a very competitive landscape for apps, so they can't afford not too, even if it's only in half the new iPhone models. 3) Eventually it will be present to all devices anyway. In the meantime, the cheaper SE models allows Apple to cater better to places like India without sacrificing much.

randyrand 11y ago
> as devices are fully functional without it. Depends on how the app is programmed.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Yes, but I've never seen any app, including Apples, that solely relies on it. Still, there might be 10 of such apps out there. But I doubt there will be 100.
theli0nheart 11y ago
> 2) Developers will add it to their apps anyway, to entice high end users -- it's a very competitive landscape for apps, so they can't afford not too, even if it's only in half the new iPhone models. App developer here. Patently false. I actually haven't implemented 3D touch in any app. Want to guess how many support requests I've received for it? Zero.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >App developer here. Patently false. I actually haven't implemented 3D touch in any app. Want to guess how many support requests I've received for it? Zero. Well, I said "will add it to their apps anyway", Not "already have added it". And I'm talking about flagship apps , the kind everyone has on their home screens, not any random app or developer. It's not a "no true scotchman" either. Obviously I know that not all of the smaller/casual/fart/etc apps are gonna get it -- heck, I've got several old apps that haven't been updated for even for far more important changes (like Retina assets or larger screen sizes). So, if you make "Funtime Googly Eyes" or "Milan Metro timetables" you might not add 3D Touch. But apps like Facebook, Twitter, Gmaps, Dropbox, Gmail, Evernote, Instamatic, Flipboard, Procreate, VSCO, etc, are sure gonna add it. (and lots of smaller apps wanting to differentiate themselves too, but all the big ones are getting it sooner or later -- some already have).

incepted 11y ago

> No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. Indeed. I see this as a sign that 3D touch is not getting much traction.

fudged71 11y ago

3D Touch is confusing enough as-is for new users... Now you don't even know which devices support it. Very frustrating from the UX standpoint.

timpark 11y ago

I haven't tried it, but this library claims to emulate 3D touch on non-3D touch devices by checking UITouch's majorRadius value. https://github.com/marmelroy/PeekPop https://github.com/marmelroy/PeekPop

makecheck 11y ago

You know, until you mentioned it just now, I’d forgotten my phone even has 3D Touch. It had been literally weeks since I last thought to use force-touch for anything, mostly because there is zero indication where it will work. And it is half-baked in the sense that when I do activate 3D Touch, it’s usually by accident. It is almost the same gesture as deleting apps on the home screen! I go to delete an app, press-and-hold a little too long and instead of squiggly icons with delete buttons I get...a menu? And usually I get that the 2nd time I try, too. Force-touch badly needs something to make it obvious, and they need to work a lot harder on making it not overlap with anything else. Ironically, for an interface that loves gratuitous animation, force-touchable objects might have made a lot more sense with some fancy appearance or animation and they have none.

ino 11y ago
Start using the keyboard trackpad for moving the cursor, selecting and deleting words, paragraphs or the whole text input. It's the killer app.
- rohankshir 11y ago
  holy shit
- makecheck 11y ago
  Well, I forget to use it on the keyboard too. :) And the keyboard has exactly the same problem; force-touch uses space that already has a purpose and a gesture that is somewhat similar to that of the normal keyboard function. I tried it just now and there is a decent chance I will start typing random characters instead of activating it. That, to me, is a failure of an interface. I will admit that once activated correctly, the mini-trackpad is a better method for moving the cursor (although, almost anything could improve over the default text editing on iOS).
- SonicSoul 11y ago
  wow nice! I was only aware of the call button (useless 3 contact shortcut) and app store instant search. this is almost like a Easter egg.

abalone 11y ago

It's not fragmentation. Pencil and 3D Touch were designed as optional features from the get-go. It makes perfect sense to reserve them for their premium devices. Fragmentation is more like when apps run poorly on less popular Android phones because of all the differences (screen sizes, performance characteristics, etc.). But optional features like 3D Touch peek/pop aren't really essential to make apps run well. They're bonuses. And there's literally tens millions of people who can use 3D Touch already, so it's an optional feature probably worth implementing. And if you're building a design app it makes complete sense to support the Pencil, which is specifically targeted at that niche. Also you're mistaken about Touch ID and adaptive layout. Touch ID is standard across all current devices, and adaptive layout helps you support them all with minimal work.

toufka 11y ago
It's curious that the smaller phone is not a 'pro' device. I just want it to be smaller, not less powerful or even less expensive. There are of course size which limitations which dictate that smaller devices cannot cram all capabilities into the same space. But to the extent that is not true, let me pay for a powerful small iPhone.
- abalone 11y ago
  Apple wanted to create an up-to-date budget device. What you're describing would be cool, but it's just not the market that Apple was targeting.
- khedoros 11y ago
  I'd like that; a 4"-4.5" flagship-level device. Small hardware shouldn't be relegated to the bargain bin.
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  I'm in the same boat. Updated year after year and got all of them up to the 5s. The 6 form factor annoys me, too big to hold it confortably and too small to actually replace the ipad. Wouldn't pay premium proce for the c device of a generation past, this se perfectly fits the bill of what a smartphone should be to me

afoxtron 11y ago

It's kind of a shame to see so much hate for a neat feature. I think a lot of non developers gave Apple shit for 3D touch as just another gimmick because they don't see the fundamental interaction problem that it solved. Long holds on mobile are excruciating interactions for people, and 3D touch fixes that. It allows the user to reach a deeper level of contextual actions, without forcing them to wait like a long tap and hold does. Anything that empowers the user like that is a huge win in my mind. I really hope apple sticks with it moving forward. As a developer I have been having a blast coming up with new and interesting ways to use it that legitimately increase a user's satisfaction and the usefulness of an app.

nicky0 11y ago
In my view it would have been OK if force touch had been equivalent to a long hold. The problem is that force touch and long hold do different things.
- derefr 11y ago
  In my view, a long hold was always basically a "secondary click"—but Apple didn't use it for much, since it was so tedious. So, rather than getting a menu, it mostly served to activate a single important secondary function on the item. (And devs came up with different solutions for menus, like side-swiping in list-views; and modal multi-select, with additional actions to apply to selected results.) Force touch, on the other hand, isn't tedious, so it does what Apple wanted to do: it gives you a menu. I would expect that whatever a long hold does to an item should also be a thing on that menu. You could think of a long hold, then, as the "default secondary action"—like how shell object handlers in Windows use their "default primary action" from their context menu when double-clicked.
theinternetman 11y ago
>Long holds on mobile are excruciating interactions for people, and 3D touch fixes that But it doesn't provide an easier way to access long hold functionality, instead of provides different functionality that could be activated accidentally instead of long hold functionality. e.g it doesn't make deleting apps less tedious, it instead adds a shortcut menu you might activate by accident when trying to delete the app.

feelix 11y ago

And although 3D Touch is almost entirely unused by almost everybody as far as I can tell, the actual physical implementation of it is brilliant. I wrote this: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3d-touch-explorer/id1060346713 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3d-touch-explorer/id10603467... to demonstrate it (source code here: https://github.com/benslaney/3D-Touch-Explorer https://github.com/benslaney/3D-Touch-Explorer). The amount of granularity and the sensitivity of it - equal all over the screen - is crazy.

capkutay 11y ago

From a product standpoint it doesn't really make sense. Maybe they're just refurbishing old iPhone 5's and they can't build in the 3D touch capability.

m_mueller 11y ago

There's a good technical reason why it's not on their 4inch phone - lack of space, which AFAIK that sensor takes quite a bit. There's not a good reason why it's not on their iPad Pro lineup, their biggest and (at least for part of the lineup) most expensive iOS devices.

jevinskie 11y ago
Perhaps the reason for lack of 3D Touch on the iPad Pros is that it is too much space, and the sensing technology doesn't scale well enough?
- m_mueller 11y ago
  That's an interesting point, I haven't yet thought of that. Could be. Maybe you'd need a whole array of these sensors behind the screen at different positions.

NamTaf 11y ago

I don't understand why everyone is ignoring the simple answer that no 3D touch is simply a result of the same 5S screen being used? Presumably 3D touch requires a haptic layer on the screen so if that's not present, it can't exist.

NamTaf 11y ago
Dare I ask why I'm being downvoted? As far as I can tell, [1] suggests that there's additional hardware involved in the screen to make 3D touch work. Is it that this hardware exists but just isn't being used? Is it that people think it's a trivial addition to revise the 4" screen to include this hardware and that Apple were just lazy? I'm genuinely curious, because I have not seen anyone say "hey maybe they just used the same screen as the 5S and that's why 3D touch is left off" but I have seen a lot of "I don't understand why Apple neglected to include 3D touch in the SE". [1]: http://www.apple.com/au/iphone-6s/3d-touch/ http://www.apple.com/au/iphone-6s/3d-touch/

deleted 11y ago

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