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>But I wasted time interviewing some overqualified people too (because of salary/location expectations that should have been communicated up front). Well that'

>But I wasted time interviewing some overqualified people too (because of salary/location expectations that should have been communicated up front). Well that's your own fault as the job advertiser, and when I say "you", I mean almost all companies that advertise jobs. You almost never state the salaries to be paid, so tons of peoples' time gets wasted by pointless interviewing which gets followed up with insultingly low salary offers. If you're a cheap-ass and want to pay a pathetic salary, you should state this in your job ad, so that non-deadwood people don't bother to apply to your job. >This is a hard problem because some institutions write wish lists in their job reqs, and some write hard and fast requirements. It's not that hard to tell the difference. When the word "required" is used, that sounds like a requirement to me. When a separate list is preceded by "nice to have", "plusses", etc., those are obviously skills that the company would like to have in a candidate, but are not hard-and-fast requirements. If the company is so stupid they can't write a simple job advertisement this way, and they use the word "requirements" or "required" when they really meant "nice to have", then they don't deserve any employees at all.

ghurtado 11y ago
You must be a joy to interview.
- bbarn 11y ago
  Actually, this is exactly the type of person I like to interview. One that's already thought ahead and read the posting and decided if it was even close to a fit lifestyle-wise for them, and technically.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    Thank you. When I look for a job, I'm not looking for the very top salary (usually those go to the very top performers, which I'm not, I'm good but not top 1%, or are companies which expect too much time), but there are a good number of companies out there trying to get good people for bottom-of-the-barrel salaries. I don't want to waste my time on those places. They usually have other big problems in addition to poor pay too. Honestly, I wish every job posting included the following: - salary range (and an honest one too, not one where they post a mediocre low and a great high, but then never actually offer the high number to anyone and just offer the low number by default) - work location - sometimes it's not that easy to figure out where a company's office is located, or they have multiple locations. The address is important, because it determines my commute time. - office environment - is it open-plan, cubicles, offices, shared offices, etc. Some photos would be good. - computing environment - do you use Windows (7, 8, 10), MacOSX, Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, etc.)? A combination? (RH in a VM for development, Windows for email/Office). What version control do you use? (git, SVN, or (ugh) ClearCase) - standard benefits package: insurance company and regular single-guy premium, number of days off/year, etc. - a fairly detailed explanation of the actual work involved in this position: what technologies you'll likely use, what the project is, etc. - number of people in team, how team works together (Scrum/Agile, waterfall, etc.) If companies would just post all this info with their job requisitions, it'd save everyone a lot of time. I see posting filled with paragraphs and paragraphs of flowery crap about how wonderful their "collaborative team environment" is or their corporate philosophy or whatever, but the things I listed above are what are important to me in a job and what will determine if I'm happy in that job. Spare me the flowery prose about how wonderful your company is; I'll make that determination on my own.
softawre 11y ago
Don't let the downvotes get to you. You're right on.
dasil003 11y ago
Actual salaries don't correlate to ability nearly as closely as you imply.
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Salaries are often just a function of negotiating skill.
mooreds 11y ago
Why should the company lead with what they are willing to pay? Why is it on the company and not the possible employee? Why shouldn't every phone screen begin with the possible employee saying "this is my salary range" and politely exiting the call if the screener won't validate that the salary offered is within that range? When I buy a car, the person selling the car sets the price. I can take it or leave it. When I rent a house, the landlord sets the price. I can take it or leave it. When I'm selling my labor as an employee, why am I not the person setting the price that the company takes or leaves? I'll tell you why, because the first party to state a number in any negotiation is at a disadvantage, because the counter party suddenly has more information. Now, there's a valid case that the employer/employee relationship is asymmetrical enough as it is (one employer -> many employees) that the company should give up that negotiating point, but if I ran a company, I'd want to justify that. (There's also a case to be made that, especially with knowledge work, the employee has an asymmetrical advantage because they know how hard they are working, and it's hard for the employer to know.) That said, when I enter into a new engagement to sell my labor, aka an interview, I do my best to make sure they want to buy my time before I set a price. It's negotiation. Edit: I love the parent comment even though we disagree, upvoted.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  >Now, there's a valid case that the employer/employee relationship is asymmetrical enough as it is (one employer -> many employees) that the company should give up that negotiating point That's exactly why I think the employer should give up that negotiating point. The other reason is that employers are constantly whining about how they don't have enough engineers, can't find qualified people, etc., and then lobbying Congress to do something about it. Employees don't have this kind of political power. Finally, I wouldn't mind if negotiation were simply eliminated with job salaries. You don't negotiate with the cashier at Walmart about how much you're going to pay for some vegetables or a TV. The price is the price, take it or leave it. It'd be better if everything were that way, so that consumers could compare things more accurately. There are many nations where the posted price is not the actual price, and haggling is expected and normal, even on something as mundane as groceries. Without exception, these nations are backwards and economic disasters. There's a reason for that.
StavrosK 11y ago
Are you the Grishnakh from RoD?
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  I have no idea what "RoD" is. I'm the Grishnakh who used to be an orc captain but was stepped on by an Ent.

ghurtado 11y ago

You must be a joy to interview.

bbarn 11y ago
Actually, this is exactly the type of person I like to interview. One that's already thought ahead and read the posting and decided if it was even close to a fit lifestyle-wise for them, and technically.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  Thank you. When I look for a job, I'm not looking for the very top salary (usually those go to the very top performers, which I'm not, I'm good but not top 1%, or are companies which expect too much time), but there are a good number of companies out there trying to get good people for bottom-of-the-barrel salaries. I don't want to waste my time on those places. They usually have other big problems in addition to poor pay too. Honestly, I wish every job posting included the following: - salary range (and an honest one too, not one where they post a mediocre low and a great high, but then never actually offer the high number to anyone and just offer the low number by default) - work location - sometimes it's not that easy to figure out where a company's office is located, or they have multiple locations. The address is important, because it determines my commute time. - office environment - is it open-plan, cubicles, offices, shared offices, etc. Some photos would be good. - computing environment - do you use Windows (7, 8, 10), MacOSX, Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, RHEL, etc.)? A combination? (RH in a VM for development, Windows for email/Office). What version control do you use? (git, SVN, or (ugh) ClearCase) - standard benefits package: insurance company and regular single-guy premium, number of days off/year, etc. - a fairly detailed explanation of the actual work involved in this position: what technologies you'll likely use, what the project is, etc. - number of people in team, how team works together (Scrum/Agile, waterfall, etc.) If companies would just post all this info with their job requisitions, it'd save everyone a lot of time. I see posting filled with paragraphs and paragraphs of flowery crap about how wonderful their "collaborative team environment" is or their corporate philosophy or whatever, but the things I listed above are what are important to me in a job and what will determine if I'm happy in that job. Spare me the flowery prose about how wonderful your company is; I'll make that determination on my own.

softawre 11y ago

Don't let the downvotes get to you. You're right on.

dasil003 11y ago

Actual salaries don't correlate to ability nearly as closely as you imply.

nommm-nommm 11y ago
Salaries are often just a function of negotiating skill.

mooreds 11y ago

Why should the company lead with what they are willing to pay? Why is it on the company and not the possible employee? Why shouldn't every phone screen begin with the possible employee saying "this is my salary range" and politely exiting the call if the screener won't validate that the salary offered is within that range? When I buy a car, the person selling the car sets the price. I can take it or leave it. When I rent a house, the landlord sets the price. I can take it or leave it. When I'm selling my labor as an employee, why am I not the person setting the price that the company takes or leaves? I'll tell you why, because the first party to state a number in any negotiation is at a disadvantage, because the counter party suddenly has more information. Now, there's a valid case that the employer/employee relationship is asymmetrical enough as it is (one employer -> many employees) that the company should give up that negotiating point, but if I ran a company, I'd want to justify that. (There's also a case to be made that, especially with knowledge work, the employee has an asymmetrical advantage because they know how hard they are working, and it's hard for the employer to know.) That said, when I enter into a new engagement to sell my labor, aka an interview, I do my best to make sure they want to buy my time before I set a price. It's negotiation. Edit: I love the parent comment even though we disagree, upvoted.

Grishnakh 11y ago
>Now, there's a valid case that the employer/employee relationship is asymmetrical enough as it is (one employer -> many employees) that the company should give up that negotiating point That's exactly why I think the employer should give up that negotiating point. The other reason is that employers are constantly whining about how they don't have enough engineers, can't find qualified people, etc., and then lobbying Congress to do something about it. Employees don't have this kind of political power. Finally, I wouldn't mind if negotiation were simply eliminated with job salaries. You don't negotiate with the cashier at Walmart about how much you're going to pay for some vegetables or a TV. The price is the price, take it or leave it. It'd be better if everything were that way, so that consumers could compare things more accurately. There are many nations where the posted price is not the actual price, and haggling is expected and normal, even on something as mundane as groceries. Without exception, these nations are backwards and economic disasters. There's a reason for that.

StavrosK 11y ago

Are you the Grishnakh from RoD?

Grishnakh 11y ago
I have no idea what "RoD" is. I'm the Grishnakh who used to be an orc captain but was stepped on by an Ent.