4 ms·

The group of people that still hates Microsoft by and large will always hate them until they die. Even if they opened up the patents they'd still be hated for "

by lagadu 11y ago

The group of people that still hates Microsoft by and large will always hate them until they die. Even if they opened up the patents they'd still be hated for "being evil". There's next to nothing to gain from doing and there's billions to lose.

low_battery 11y ago
I guess if they really stop "being evil" a lot of people would give them another chance.
tluyben2 11y ago
Nah, people were giving them another chance already. I for one don't 'hate' them, I find Windows (and Outlook and let's not talk about Sharepoint) not a good product and thus not worth the money and with them 'being evil', I did not really understand why anyone would use it. With all the open source and other good strategy decisions by Nadella I was changing my opinion some what. It seems they should take that all the way to make me (and others) to not frown when someone says they pay for their products. Still something is better than nothing so they did become less evil in some respects, however their open source strategy seems about getting devs closer again and devs are some of the only people who care deeply about patents.
- lagadu 11y ago
  > I find Windows (and Outlook and let's not talk about Sharepoint) not a good product and thus not worth the money This is exactly what I mean. Them opening up the patents wouldn't change your bias against their products (justified or otherwise isn't relevant) like you just described, making it a business decision with very, very limited gains and billions in losses.
  - abiox 11y ago
    you seem to say that windows is objectively good and worth the money, irrespective of their circumstance. otherwise, what could "wouldn't change your bias" mean?
    - lagadu 11y ago
      I'm not saying anything objective about its worth. Under some circumstances it has a certain value, under other circumstances it has a different one. By bias I meant that you flat out said that Windows and a few other MS products aren't worth the money and don't understand why anybody would use it. Now sure, it's possible that after careful consideration you decided in a completely unbiased manner that the products you listed aren't worth their cost under any circumstances but I'm sure you'll agree how that might sound incredibly biased to a casual observer. edit: well except sharepoint like you said. That thing is just bad and I've no problem admitting to a bias against it.
  - tluyben2 11y ago
    Well you were talking about 'hate' which would make me say I don't like the products because I don't like the company. That's not the case; I actually try Windows at every new version because I have to make sure my products run on it, but it's just annoying for me compared to Linux (and Mac OS X); the productivity is just very low. Objectively I have seen that our employees get more productive when they switch to a unix but that's just anecdotal and not interesting here, but it's not because of hate for MS. I would really want to work for MSR and especially on things like [1]. It would not change my bias because they are, to me again, not good products, however there are products they make which I do like and I would be more inclined to pay money for them if they were less evil. And to me (and I believe a lot of programmers) that means software patents. I find patents in general a wrong concept but you need them (especially in the US) to defend yourself against other companies using them or trolls suing you. [1] http://www.rise4fun.com/ http://www.rise4fun.com/
Karunamon 11y ago
Can you really blame them? Microsoft's bad behavior and damage to the computing industry from their documented monopolistic, anticompetitive practices had consequences that are still felt today. They're clearly trying to change their ways, but every now and then (i.e. patent crap) some of the old regime shines through. It shows that the internal mentality hasn't changed as much as they like to put on.
- justinclift 11y ago
  If they were trying to change their ways, explain forcing Win 10 down everyone's throats except those who actively opt-out via registry setting. They need to walk the walk, which they're not doing. :(

by lagadu 11y ago

low_battery 11y ago

I guess if they really stop "being evil" a lot of people would give them another chance.

tluyben2 11y ago

Nah, people were giving them another chance already. I for one don't 'hate' them, I find Windows (and Outlook and let's not talk about Sharepoint) not a good product and thus not worth the money and with them 'being evil', I did not really understand why anyone would use it. With all the open source and other good strategy decisions by Nadella I was changing my opinion some what. It seems they should take that all the way to make me (and others) to not frown when someone says they pay for their products. Still something is better than nothing so they did become less evil in some respects, however their open source strategy seems about getting devs closer again and devs are some of the only people who care deeply about patents.

lagadu 11y ago
> I find Windows (and Outlook and let's not talk about Sharepoint) not a good product and thus not worth the money This is exactly what I mean. Them opening up the patents wouldn't change your bias against their products (justified or otherwise isn't relevant) like you just described, making it a business decision with very, very limited gains and billions in losses.
- abiox 11y ago
  you seem to say that windows is objectively good and worth the money, irrespective of their circumstance. otherwise, what could "wouldn't change your bias" mean?
  - lagadu 11y ago
    I'm not saying anything objective about its worth. Under some circumstances it has a certain value, under other circumstances it has a different one. By bias I meant that you flat out said that Windows and a few other MS products aren't worth the money and don't understand why anybody would use it. Now sure, it's possible that after careful consideration you decided in a completely unbiased manner that the products you listed aren't worth their cost under any circumstances but I'm sure you'll agree how that might sound incredibly biased to a casual observer. edit: well except sharepoint like you said. That thing is just bad and I've no problem admitting to a bias against it.
- tluyben2 11y ago
  Well you were talking about 'hate' which would make me say I don't like the products because I don't like the company. That's not the case; I actually try Windows at every new version because I have to make sure my products run on it, but it's just annoying for me compared to Linux (and Mac OS X); the productivity is just very low. Objectively I have seen that our employees get more productive when they switch to a unix but that's just anecdotal and not interesting here, but it's not because of hate for MS. I would really want to work for MSR and especially on things like [1]. It would not change my bias because they are, to me again, not good products, however there are products they make which I do like and I would be more inclined to pay money for them if they were less evil. And to me (and I believe a lot of programmers) that means software patents. I find patents in general a wrong concept but you need them (especially in the US) to defend yourself against other companies using them or trolls suing you. [1] http://www.rise4fun.com/ http://www.rise4fun.com/

Karunamon 11y ago

Can you really blame them? Microsoft's bad behavior and damage to the computing industry from their documented monopolistic, anticompetitive practices had consequences that are still felt today. They're clearly trying to change their ways, but every now and then (i.e. patent crap) some of the old regime shines through. It shows that the internal mentality hasn't changed as much as they like to put on.

justinclift 11y ago
If they were trying to change their ways, explain forcing Win 10 down everyone's throats except those who actively opt-out via registry setting. They need to walk the walk, which they're not doing. :(