4 ms·

Internet Explorer 9 demos set for March MIX conference

11 points by barredo 17y ago

mmastrac 17y ago
As 'blah' as the release of a new IE is, it's nice to see that there's some progress being made. It's still far too painful to fix code that works identically between Firefox and WebKit and breaks in weird and wonderful ways once IE is in the picture. I hope their focus on correctness is as strong as the focus on matching JS speed in the other browsers, however. You can't do all the cool stuff that speed enables when you spend half the time figuring out when your elements need layout.
dschobel 17y ago
That chart of sunspider performance tests makes me laugh every time. The scale is so skewed by IE7 that IE9 actually looks competitive. They should have just thrown in IE6 numbers to really flatten out any differences.
apike 17y ago
I think the big deal about IE9 is the major improvement in Javascript performance. Given that, emulating some of the various web standards IE lacks using Javascript will become more practical.
- lukifer 17y ago
  I particularly hope that <canvas> can be implemented using the Direct2D engine they're touting so heavily. It would be beautiful to use a proprietary standard to forcibly implement an open one. :)
  - mmastrac 17y ago
    Is that Direct2D engine developer-accessible? From my understanding, it's just a rendering technology for HTML/VML (a la Cairo for Firefox).
    - xal 17y ago
      It looks like it's a proprietary competitor to canvas which microsoft doesn't like.
      - mmastrac 17y ago
        I'm pretty sure it's just a rendering technology - not a canvas competitor. Even Firefox will be supporting it: http://www.osnews.com/story/22543/Direct2D_Acceleration_Firefox_Measures_up_to_IE9 http://www.osnews.com/story/22543/Direct2D_Acceleration_Fire...
johns 17y ago
Sadly, just like IE8, IEx doesn't matter until IE6 is gone. Unless they allow IE9 to emulate IE6 on command so corp IT departments can install it without fear of breaking old apps. Like Windows XP mode in Windows 7 but for IE>
- bugs 17y ago
  I'm always curious as to what these apps require that newer browsers can't handle or rather handle differently, does anyone know of any examples off hand?
  - bho 17y ago
    Examples are usually at any big non-tech corporation: engineering firms, insurance companies, etc. They are typically found in their reporting tools or HR tools, or even the internal company website. I worked at a place where everything revolved around IE6. I couldn't even browse the company websites in anything non IE. They must have checked the useragent, or used only ActiveX specific code.
snitko 17y ago
All that 2D stuff sounds fascinating, but unless they fix all the stupid things that even ie8 renders wrong, unless they implement svg, html5 and a good js-engine, nobody cares. Microsoft is still trying to "lead" the web instead of just admitting they suck at web and doing their homework good (i.e. fixing everything up to the level when it works 'fine'). Of course I realize, it's probably a part of the plan - hold back the industry as long as possible in an attempt to give less advantage to the competitors. But it doesn't seem to work, because people always find workarounds, don't they?
thechangelog 17y ago
As a web developer I'm keenly interested in any new IE releases. I can't help but wonder, however, why Microsoft need's to mark each release as a major version (7, 8, 9). Microsoft itself has made it clear that everyone should upgrade to the latest IE version, yet uptake has been slow. Couldn't they just bury new rendering engines in service packs and leave the version numbers alone? IE users would enjoy a better web experience, Microsoft wouldn't be stuck supporting old browsers for as long, and I could avoid going prematurely grey.
- chadgeidel 17y ago
  They can't "hide" an update to IE because too many corporate apps (not on the Internet) depend on IE6 behavior.
  - thechangelog 17y ago
    While they certainly can't break old releases, it seems that with IE 8 onwards they could implement something like that, doesn't it?
    - chadgeidel 17y ago
      Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that seems like a great idea!
simonw 17y ago
SVG and canvas support would be awesome - and it sounds like SVG at least is likely.
- dandelany 17y ago
  (from http://processingjs.org/blog/?p=77 http://processingjs.org/blog/?p=77): F1LT3R[13:10] asked the experts: So the IE development team are officially doing nothing except listening to users re: the Canvas at this time? EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert)[13:12]: We’re doing lots of stuff :) Seems like they're dodging the question, as usual.
- Maciek416 17y ago
  Do you mean native SVG support of some sort or something emulated via the Direct2D stuff? Mainly I'm curious whether an actual statement has been made on this :)
dandelany 17y ago
"Web developers attending the conference will need to see how the new browser functions, especially with respect to its all-new support for Direct2D rendering (a Windows-only feature that has potential to flatten its competition), as well as improved support and functionality with Silverlight (a cross-platform feature)." Read: "We know the house has no foundation, but it's okay, because look at all the sweet shit we added! There's a windvane on the roof, and we gave 'er a new coat of paint, and we even added on a sexy garage in which you can only park Ford cars! Cool, huh?!"
- kevingadd 17y ago
  To be fair, Direct2D and Silverlight are actually potentially quite useful features: Direct2D is a hardware acceleration layer for 2D graphics. If it's fully integrated into IE that means we might finally be able to get a full quality <canvas> implementation in IE (Even if we still have to build it ourselves with JS) - way better than the current VML based hacks. Silverlight also gives developers a nice alternative to Flash if all they need to do is get access to things the browser doesn't expose yet. It's still not as good as pure js/html, but it's at least got functioning open source implementations (unlike Flash).
  - dandelany 17y ago
    Yes, but Direct2D is proprietary and Windows-only, and Silverlight has <50% adoption...
rauljara 17y ago
Internet explorer's version of progress is not even close to caught up to what's already out there. It is slower and less compliant than browsers that have been out for almost a year. And 32% on the acid3 test? Seriously? You can tell exactly where their priorities don't lie.
hexley 17y ago
All that waffling on and a mention of whether it's HTML5 compliant and whether it supports the <video> tag at least.
hexley 17y ago
All that waffling on and a mention of whether it's HTML5 compliant and whether it supports the <video> tag at least.

11 points by barredo 17y ago

As 'blah' as the release of a new IE is, it's nice to see that there's some progress being made. It's still far too painful to fix code that works identically between Firefox and WebKit and breaks in weird and wonderful ways once IE is in the picture. I hope their focus on correctness is as strong as the focus on matching JS speed in the other browsers, however. You can't do all the cool stuff that speed enables when you spend half the time figuring out when your elements need layout.

dschobel 17y ago

That chart of sunspider performance tests makes me laugh every time. The scale is so skewed by IE7 that IE9 actually looks competitive. They should have just thrown in IE6 numbers to really flatten out any differences.

apike 17y ago

I think the big deal about IE9 is the major improvement in Javascript performance. Given that, emulating some of the various web standards IE lacks using Javascript will become more practical.

lukifer 17y ago
I particularly hope that <canvas> can be implemented using the Direct2D engine they're touting so heavily. It would be beautiful to use a proprietary standard to forcibly implement an open one. :)
- mmastrac 17y ago
  Is that Direct2D engine developer-accessible? From my understanding, it's just a rendering technology for HTML/VML (a la Cairo for Firefox).
  - xal 17y ago
    It looks like it's a proprietary competitor to canvas which microsoft doesn't like.
    - mmastrac 17y ago
      I'm pretty sure it's just a rendering technology - not a canvas competitor. Even Firefox will be supporting it: http://www.osnews.com/story/22543/Direct2D_Acceleration_Firefox_Measures_up_to_IE9 http://www.osnews.com/story/22543/Direct2D_Acceleration_Fire...

johns 17y ago

Sadly, just like IE8, IEx doesn't matter until IE6 is gone. Unless they allow IE9 to emulate IE6 on command so corp IT departments can install it without fear of breaking old apps. Like Windows XP mode in Windows 7 but for IE>

bugs 17y ago
I'm always curious as to what these apps require that newer browsers can't handle or rather handle differently, does anyone know of any examples off hand?
- bho 17y ago
  Examples are usually at any big non-tech corporation: engineering firms, insurance companies, etc. They are typically found in their reporting tools or HR tools, or even the internal company website. I worked at a place where everything revolved around IE6. I couldn't even browse the company websites in anything non IE. They must have checked the useragent, or used only ActiveX specific code.

snitko 17y ago

All that 2D stuff sounds fascinating, but unless they fix all the stupid things that even ie8 renders wrong, unless they implement svg, html5 and a good js-engine, nobody cares. Microsoft is still trying to "lead" the web instead of just admitting they suck at web and doing their homework good (i.e. fixing everything up to the level when it works 'fine'). Of course I realize, it's probably a part of the plan - hold back the industry as long as possible in an attempt to give less advantage to the competitors. But it doesn't seem to work, because people always find workarounds, don't they?

thechangelog 17y ago

As a web developer I'm keenly interested in any new IE releases. I can't help but wonder, however, why Microsoft need's to mark each release as a major version (7, 8, 9). Microsoft itself has made it clear that everyone should upgrade to the latest IE version, yet uptake has been slow. Couldn't they just bury new rendering engines in service packs and leave the version numbers alone? IE users would enjoy a better web experience, Microsoft wouldn't be stuck supporting old browsers for as long, and I could avoid going prematurely grey.

chadgeidel 17y ago
They can't "hide" an update to IE because too many corporate apps (not on the Internet) depend on IE6 behavior.
- thechangelog 17y ago
  While they certainly can't break old releases, it seems that with IE 8 onwards they could implement something like that, doesn't it?
  - chadgeidel 17y ago
    Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that seems like a great idea!

simonw 17y ago

SVG and canvas support would be awesome - and it sounds like SVG at least is likely.

dandelany 17y ago
(from http://processingjs.org/blog/?p=77 http://processingjs.org/blog/?p=77): F1LT3R[13:10] asked the experts: So the IE development team are officially doing nothing except listening to users re: the Canvas at this time? EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert)[13:12]: We’re doing lots of stuff :) Seems like they're dodging the question, as usual.
Maciek416 17y ago
Do you mean native SVG support of some sort or something emulated via the Direct2D stuff? Mainly I'm curious whether an actual statement has been made on this :)

dandelany 17y ago

"Web developers attending the conference will need to see how the new browser functions, especially with respect to its all-new support for Direct2D rendering (a Windows-only feature that has potential to flatten its competition), as well as improved support and functionality with Silverlight (a cross-platform feature)." Read: "We know the house has no foundation, but it's okay, because look at all the sweet shit we added! There's a windvane on the roof, and we gave 'er a new coat of paint, and we even added on a sexy garage in which you can only park Ford cars! Cool, huh?!"

kevingadd 17y ago
To be fair, Direct2D and Silverlight are actually potentially quite useful features: Direct2D is a hardware acceleration layer for 2D graphics. If it's fully integrated into IE that means we might finally be able to get a full quality <canvas> implementation in IE (Even if we still have to build it ourselves with JS) - way better than the current VML based hacks. Silverlight also gives developers a nice alternative to Flash if all they need to do is get access to things the browser doesn't expose yet. It's still not as good as pure js/html, but it's at least got functioning open source implementations (unlike Flash).
- dandelany 17y ago
  Yes, but Direct2D is proprietary and Windows-only, and Silverlight has <50% adoption...

rauljara 17y ago

Internet explorer's version of progress is not even close to caught up to what's already out there. It is slower and less compliant than browsers that have been out for almost a year. And 32% on the acid3 test? Seriously? You can tell exactly where their priorities don't lie.

hexley 17y ago

All that waffling on and a mention of whether it's HTML5 compliant and whether it supports the <video> tag at least.

hexley 17y ago

All that waffling on and a mention of whether it's HTML5 compliant and whether it supports the <video> tag at least.