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In this somewhat related article the controller of SF discusses how the city's budget is used: http://www.sfexaminer.com/san-franciscos-9-billion-question/ http

by Ben-G 11y ago

In this somewhat related article the controller of SF discusses how the city's budget is used: http://www.sfexaminer.com/san-franciscos-9-billion-question/ http://www.sfexaminer.com/san-franciscos-9-billion-question/ It's fairly obvious that there isn't enough $ for infrastructure investment on a municipal level. I'm not entirely sure how the system in the U.S. works but it appears that a city is responsible for the maintenance of its own roads. For transit cities like SF this is somewhat unfortunate. The 7 million people living in the Bay Area use these streets frequently but a majority does not contribute to funding them. Probably city tolls (for regular streets, not only bridges) could help mitigate this issue.

paulddraper 11y ago
> a majority does not contribute to funding them There are all sorts of taxes: property taxes, toll roads, sales taxes, etc. The 7 million will pay these taxes in one way or another.
- stretchwithme 11y ago
  Paying directly for something is better than paying indirectly. Because you consider the cost of a resource before you use it. If we all paid a hotel tax instead of paying for hotel rooms, a lot more people would be staying in hotels and there would be no way to allocate scarce resources when demand is high, other than first come, first served. That would mean chronic hotel shortages and ever-increasing amounts of public money being spent to build new capacity so that nobody goes without when demand is high. And that's exactly what many people face at rush hour: a shortage of available road. Except we've been conditioned to think this is somehow normal and unsolvable, when its actually artificial. In Singapore, they have demand pricing and a lot less congestion at rush hour.
  - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
    > Paying directly for something is better than paying indirectly. Because you consider the cost of a resource before you use it. That does not work because it disadvantages the areas which are underdeveloped. > In Singapore, they have demand pricing and a lot less congestion at rush hour. But Singapore is tiny and quote homogenous. If there were no legal requirements for USPS for instance to operate all over the country then Alaska would not have a mail service at all. There are areas too sparsely populated / too poor to afford infrastructure and (federal) taxes are necessary to finance it.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      > If there were no legal requirements for USPS for instance to operate all over the country then Alaska would not have a mail service at all. There are areas too sparsely populated / too poor to afford infrastructure and (federal) taxes are necessary to finance it. Isn't that just the market saying it's too inefficient for anyone to live in Alaska?
    - DrScump 11y ago
      Not taxes; other USPS ratepayers.
    - harryh 11y ago
      FedEx operates in Alaska without any legal requirement to do so. That doesn't count as mail service?
    - stretchwithme 11y ago
      What does homogeneity have to do with it? Does it make you more likely to favor mass transit over sitting in traffic for long periods?
jakelarkin 11y ago
That article, I believe, was a reaction to http://modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/san-franciscos-incredible-expanding-budget http://modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/san-franciscos-i... While an interesting "matter of fact" summary it doesn't really answer the question posed - Why, in a decade of 21% inflation and 10% population growth, has SF's budget doubled? And why hasn't that spending translated into meaningful solutions to pressing city issues like decaying infrastructure (roads, sewers, pub trans) or homelessness. The likely real answers, hidden in those departmental budgets, are administrative waste and generous, massively underfunded city employee benefits packages - particularly from the 1990 to 2010 era.
DrScump 11y ago
<a city is responsible for the maintenance of its own roads> Well, generally, but even surface streets can be the responsibility of (and under the ultimate control of) the state, county, or Feds. Some U.S. highways encompass surface street segments or cross Federal property. State routes can encompass (or be mostly) surface streets (e.g. much of El Camino Real). The Expressways in Santa Clara County (Central, Southwest, Oregon, Lawrence, part of Guadalupe) are generally county roads. This becomes a real pain when trying to report a signal light malfunction ("not ours, call CalTrans") or a traffic issue ("transferring you to CHP dispatch...").

by Ben-G 11y ago

paulddraper 11y ago

> a majority does not contribute to funding them There are all sorts of taxes: property taxes, toll roads, sales taxes, etc. The 7 million will pay these taxes in one way or another.

stretchwithme 11y ago
Paying directly for something is better than paying indirectly. Because you consider the cost of a resource before you use it. If we all paid a hotel tax instead of paying for hotel rooms, a lot more people would be staying in hotels and there would be no way to allocate scarce resources when demand is high, other than first come, first served. That would mean chronic hotel shortages and ever-increasing amounts of public money being spent to build new capacity so that nobody goes without when demand is high. And that's exactly what many people face at rush hour: a shortage of available road. Except we've been conditioned to think this is somehow normal and unsolvable, when its actually artificial. In Singapore, they have demand pricing and a lot less congestion at rush hour.
- the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
  > Paying directly for something is better than paying indirectly. Because you consider the cost of a resource before you use it. That does not work because it disadvantages the areas which are underdeveloped. > In Singapore, they have demand pricing and a lot less congestion at rush hour. But Singapore is tiny and quote homogenous. If there were no legal requirements for USPS for instance to operate all over the country then Alaska would not have a mail service at all. There are areas too sparsely populated / too poor to afford infrastructure and (federal) taxes are necessary to finance it.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    > If there were no legal requirements for USPS for instance to operate all over the country then Alaska would not have a mail service at all. There are areas too sparsely populated / too poor to afford infrastructure and (federal) taxes are necessary to finance it. Isn't that just the market saying it's too inefficient for anyone to live in Alaska?
  - DrScump 11y ago
    Not taxes; other USPS ratepayers.
  - harryh 11y ago
    FedEx operates in Alaska without any legal requirement to do so. That doesn't count as mail service?
  - stretchwithme 11y ago
    What does homogeneity have to do with it? Does it make you more likely to favor mass transit over sitting in traffic for long periods?

jakelarkin 11y ago

That article, I believe, was a reaction to http://modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/san-franciscos-incredible-expanding-budget http://modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/san-franciscos-i... While an interesting "matter of fact" summary it doesn't really answer the question posed - Why, in a decade of 21% inflation and 10% population growth, has SF's budget doubled? And why hasn't that spending translated into meaningful solutions to pressing city issues like decaying infrastructure (roads, sewers, pub trans) or homelessness. The likely real answers, hidden in those departmental budgets, are administrative waste and generous, massively underfunded city employee benefits packages - particularly from the 1990 to 2010 era.

DrScump 11y ago

<a city is responsible for the maintenance of its own roads> Well, generally, but even surface streets can be the responsibility of (and under the ultimate control of) the state, county, or Feds. Some U.S. highways encompass surface street segments or cross Federal property. State routes can encompass (or be mostly) surface streets (e.g. much of El Camino Real). The Expressways in Santa Clara County (Central, Southwest, Oregon, Lawrence, part of Guadalupe) are generally county roads. This becomes a real pain when trying to report a signal light malfunction ("not ours, call CalTrans") or a traffic issue ("transferring you to CHP dispatch...").