7 ms·

What's the largest number you can represent with 3 digits? Nope. It's not 999

30 points by JBiserkov 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
terinjokes 11y ago
I can't view this, just loads a "create a LinkedIn account!" page. Is there a better link for the article?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  http://pastebin.com/hWxg8ywJ http://pastebin.com/hWxg8ywJ
jacquesm 11y ago
Way to go dad. I'd be very proud if that was my father standing up for me and as a father I'd be very proud if that was my daughter.
- threatofrain 11y ago
  But the answer isn't even correct, and it's the bad kind of pedantry. It looks myopic, but with a flair for overgeneralization (an attack on Common Core itself).
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    It is correct.
    - threatofrain 11y ago
      Following the typographic (not mathematical) logic of using implicit operators, why would exponentiation of three 9's be correct in the face of tetration of three 9's? Alternatively, why would 111 be correct in the face of 999?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
CarolineW 11y ago
Copying to here the comment I made elsewhere[0]: There is so much right with this article, and so much wrong. Firstly, it's not the Common Core he's fighting, but the implementation of some of the testing. Assessment is hard, really hard, really really hard. Making sure someone actually knows something, as opposed to going through the motions in which they are well drilled, is nearly impossible. But secondly, 9^9^9 is not the largest number that can be represented by three digits. There's Knuth's notation. Oh, perhaps they haven't learned that yet. And there's the dilemma. Arguing that all the other students were wrong because they didn't use something that they hadn't learned, we can also argue that his daughter was wrong for the same reason. Education is hard, assessment is hard, and arguments like this don't actually help. ======== [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322756
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Well, yes. Assuming the story is true in the first place. And if we believe the story - might as well, the guy is out there with his full name in view - then he did give them the option. Now about whether or not it is true or not, a girl in my class was the only one to get a particular test question right (math as well). The problem was that that test had already been administered to all the other classes and nobody got it right so it was decided to drop that question from the final grading. And then she answered it right. That test comprised 10 questions, with a 'base' of 1 point for showing up so she actually scored an '11' on a scale of 1 to 10. She had to fight for that too, this stuff occasionally does happen.
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    Yes, that is the core here. He asked: Mark my daughter's answer as correct. They said: We can either: Mark her wrong, everyone else right; or mark her right and everyone else wrong. He said: Well if you don't want to just mark her right and everyone else too, if you can't accept that the question may have multiple answers, then do what you must.
- ajholyoake 11y ago
  For Knuths notation you also require symbols. Writing 9^9^9 only uses digits.
beeboop 11y ago
TLDR: Helicopter parent pretentiously humblebrags about how his daughter is the only one in the country to get a 100% on a standardized test, since no one else answered "9^9^9" (I am guessing this was a "none of the above" answer) and how he had to get a lawyer involved to make the scoring organization mark his daughter's answer correct and everyone else's incorrect.
- threatofrain 11y ago
  Unfortunately the answer isn't even correct, and the parent uses this local example to launch an argument against the Common Core itself.
eecks 11y ago
If we allow that then I could represent a larger number with customFunction(123) and have it return (9^9^9)+1. The kids haven't learned programming? Too bad I guess. Mark that girl down to a 99 score please.
krzyk 11y ago
A side note, why is he bragging about "carrying a 3.82 in Biology with a leaning towards pre-med", that's not a mathematical subject. It would seem that in the end, didn't he lost the battle, because his daughter didn't follow maths all the way.
- pritambaral 11y ago
  It wasn't about math. It was about being intelligent and being encouraged for it.
J_Darnley 11y ago
Wow. The title would make me guess "not using base-10" but then these comments seem to let you use operators.
yongjik 11y ago
> Don't let common core stand in the way of your own children's education. Yeah, instead let a pretentious father tell every single kid in the country they are wrong because they failed to realize a technical loophole in the question that uses something that they aren't supposed to know at that age anyway. Congratulations. I won't envy someone with a daddy who would hire a lawyer and spend three months arguing how his daughter must have every answer marked correct. I'd feel sorry for her.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  You didn't read the article carefully enough. He asked them: Recognize that multiple answers can be correct and mark my daughter correct. They responded with: Only one can be correct, period. The wrong-doing is 100% with the school administration. Also, telling children: "You're not supposed to have this knowledge." is down-right despicable on a personal level.
  - yongjik 11y ago
    I agree the school behaved very poorly, but that doesn't mean the father was being reasonable. By "not supposed to know", I mean the other students should not be penalized for not knowing exponentiation. If marking down his daughter is despicable, so is marking down every other children for not having a father who can afford to hire a lawyer for their grades. The way I read it, he decided it's OK to give the same injustice his daughter received to every other children, because they are not his children, after all. I don't think that's the kind of parental role children needs, and I don't want to be such a parent. (Well, luckily for me, I can't afford lawyer for such matters, and my kids have no danger of having a five-week 100% streak on math problems, let alone five years, so I guess that point is moot...)
    - Mithaldu 11y ago
      You're still not understanding the crux of the issue here. There are two possible ways to handle this: 1. A text question can have multiple correct answers. Great, accept that, mark her as correct, everyone else too, everyone gets to be happy. 2. A text question can have only one single correct answer. In that case she was correct and everyone else was not. Period. End of game. -- And here's why the father was reasonable: He did offer them option 1. He did ask for that. The school administration refused it. It was their choice. They were being unreasonable, not the father. Also, yes, marking the other children down is despicable, however this was the choice of the school, not the choice of the father. All he told them was "mark her correct". The schools response to not simply do that and actually mark everyone else down is despicable, and they deserve all the misfortune he had the power to bring upon them, and more. "I only followed orders." has not been acceptable for a LONG time now.
minikomi 11y ago
9^9^9 is still wrong. 0 takes up more space, and therefore three zeros will be the `largest` number you can represent in terms of area. Thus, even his daughter must be marked wrong.
Houshalter 11y ago
It's also not 9^9^9. If you are allowing use of exponentation, well there are an infinite number of other math symbols out there you can use too. BusyBeaver(9^9^9), or BusyBeaver(BusyBeaver(9^9^9)), etc. And yes that's pointless know it all pedantry, but so is this whole post. The teacher obviously meant the largest number that can be stated without external math functions, and 999 is that.

30 points by JBiserkov 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

terinjokes 11y ago

I can't view this, just loads a "create a LinkedIn account!" page. Is there a better link for the article?

jacquesm 11y ago
http://pastebin.com/hWxg8ywJ http://pastebin.com/hWxg8ywJ

jacquesm 11y ago

Way to go dad. I'd be very proud if that was my father standing up for me and as a father I'd be very proud if that was my daughter.

threatofrain 11y ago
But the answer isn't even correct, and it's the bad kind of pedantry. It looks myopic, but with a flair for overgeneralization (an attack on Common Core itself).
- jacquesm 11y ago
  It is correct.
  - threatofrain 11y ago
    Following the typographic (not mathematical) logic of using implicit operators, why would exponentiation of three 9's be correct in the face of tetration of three 9's? Alternatively, why would 111 be correct in the face of 999?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

CarolineW 11y ago

Copying to here the comment I made elsewhere[0]: There is so much right with this article, and so much wrong. Firstly, it's not the Common Core he's fighting, but the implementation of some of the testing. Assessment is hard, really hard, really really hard. Making sure someone actually knows something, as opposed to going through the motions in which they are well drilled, is nearly impossible. But secondly, 9^9^9 is not the largest number that can be represented by three digits. There's Knuth's notation. Oh, perhaps they haven't learned that yet. And there's the dilemma. Arguing that all the other students were wrong because they didn't use something that they hadn't learned, we can also argue that his daughter was wrong for the same reason. Education is hard, assessment is hard, and arguments like this don't actually help. ======== [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322756

jacquesm 11y ago
Well, yes. Assuming the story is true in the first place. And if we believe the story - might as well, the guy is out there with his full name in view - then he did give them the option. Now about whether or not it is true or not, a girl in my class was the only one to get a particular test question right (math as well). The problem was that that test had already been administered to all the other classes and nobody got it right so it was decided to drop that question from the final grading. And then she answered it right. That test comprised 10 questions, with a 'base' of 1 point for showing up so she actually scored an '11' on a scale of 1 to 10. She had to fight for that too, this stuff occasionally does happen.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Yes, that is the core here. He asked: Mark my daughter's answer as correct. They said: We can either: Mark her wrong, everyone else right; or mark her right and everyone else wrong. He said: Well if you don't want to just mark her right and everyone else too, if you can't accept that the question may have multiple answers, then do what you must.
ajholyoake 11y ago
For Knuths notation you also require symbols. Writing 9^9^9 only uses digits.

beeboop 11y ago

TLDR: Helicopter parent pretentiously humblebrags about how his daughter is the only one in the country to get a 100% on a standardized test, since no one else answered "9^9^9" (I am guessing this was a "none of the above" answer) and how he had to get a lawyer involved to make the scoring organization mark his daughter's answer correct and everyone else's incorrect.

threatofrain 11y ago
Unfortunately the answer isn't even correct, and the parent uses this local example to launch an argument against the Common Core itself.

eecks 11y ago

If we allow that then I could represent a larger number with customFunction(123) and have it return (9^9^9)+1. The kids haven't learned programming? Too bad I guess. Mark that girl down to a 99 score please.

krzyk 11y ago

A side note, why is he bragging about "carrying a 3.82 in Biology with a leaning towards pre-med", that's not a mathematical subject. It would seem that in the end, didn't he lost the battle, because his daughter didn't follow maths all the way.

pritambaral 11y ago
It wasn't about math. It was about being intelligent and being encouraged for it.

J_Darnley 11y ago

Wow. The title would make me guess "not using base-10" but then these comments seem to let you use operators.

yongjik 11y ago

> Don't let common core stand in the way of your own children's education. Yeah, instead let a pretentious father tell every single kid in the country they are wrong because they failed to realize a technical loophole in the question that uses something that they aren't supposed to know at that age anyway. Congratulations. I won't envy someone with a daddy who would hire a lawyer and spend three months arguing how his daughter must have every answer marked correct. I'd feel sorry for her.

Mithaldu 11y ago
You didn't read the article carefully enough. He asked them: Recognize that multiple answers can be correct and mark my daughter correct. They responded with: Only one can be correct, period. The wrong-doing is 100% with the school administration. Also, telling children: "You're not supposed to have this knowledge." is down-right despicable on a personal level.
- yongjik 11y ago
  I agree the school behaved very poorly, but that doesn't mean the father was being reasonable. By "not supposed to know", I mean the other students should not be penalized for not knowing exponentiation. If marking down his daughter is despicable, so is marking down every other children for not having a father who can afford to hire a lawyer for their grades. The way I read it, he decided it's OK to give the same injustice his daughter received to every other children, because they are not his children, after all. I don't think that's the kind of parental role children needs, and I don't want to be such a parent. (Well, luckily for me, I can't afford lawyer for such matters, and my kids have no danger of having a five-week 100% streak on math problems, let alone five years, so I guess that point is moot...)
  - Mithaldu 11y ago
    You're still not understanding the crux of the issue here. There are two possible ways to handle this: 1. A text question can have multiple correct answers. Great, accept that, mark her as correct, everyone else too, everyone gets to be happy. 2. A text question can have only one single correct answer. In that case she was correct and everyone else was not. Period. End of game. -- And here's why the father was reasonable: He did offer them option 1. He did ask for that. The school administration refused it. It was their choice. They were being unreasonable, not the father. Also, yes, marking the other children down is despicable, however this was the choice of the school, not the choice of the father. All he told them was "mark her correct". The schools response to not simply do that and actually mark everyone else down is despicable, and they deserve all the misfortune he had the power to bring upon them, and more. "I only followed orders." has not been acceptable for a LONG time now.

minikomi 11y ago

9^9^9 is still wrong. 0 takes up more space, and therefore three zeros will be the `largest` number you can represent in terms of area. Thus, even his daughter must be marked wrong.

Houshalter 11y ago

It's also not 9^9^9. If you are allowing use of exponentation, well there are an infinite number of other math symbols out there you can use too. BusyBeaver(9^9^9), or BusyBeaver(BusyBeaver(9^9^9)), etc. And yes that's pointless know it all pedantry, but so is this whole post. The teacher obviously meant the largest number that can be stated without external math functions, and 999 is that.