3 ms·

It's interesting how some people do this, yet don't give a second thought to driving together all the time.

by diego 17y ago

jamesbkel 17y ago
True, I imagine a plane crash is very much an all or nothing venture (major and few survivors vs. minor with just injuries). Perhaps not so much with driving. Right now just speculating, but I'd be curious to if anyone's created a breakdown of traffic fatalities by # of passengers in each vehicle and # passenger fatalities. I've seen that sort of thing before, but almost always in the context of teen/new drivers. Couldn't find anything quickly, will look after work.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
neurotech1 17y ago
From experience As somebody who lost their flight status after a car wreck, driving is much more dangerous. At least in an aircraft, theres always the possibility of ejecting out, bailing out, or using a "ballistic parachute" (Cirrus makes them)to recover the plane - the problem is when the pilot doesn't realize they're in trouble until its too late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_Syste... Bailout options do exist for GA/Light Aircraft.
- paulgerhardt 17y ago
  Yes but those options aren't exactly practical for the most common types of incidents: power failure (especially during take-off and landing) and collisions with terrain due to inclement weather. From the limited amount of technical details available, I would guess that a combination of the two happened here. While small duel engine aircraft may be able to sustain cruising altitude under significant strain on one engine, they are notorious for not being able to climb, and particular take off with only half power - certainly not with 3 people and baggage. This is speculation, but by the looks of the location of the crash, and given that Palo Alto airport has a left hand pattern on runway 31 (that is, they fly counter-clockwise around the airport after taking off in the magnetic direction of 310 degrees) they most likely experienced a power failure during or very shortly after take off on one engine (but maybe both) and attempted to turn back to the airport to land. Interestingly +100ft transmission towers east of the airport are mentioned in FAA notices. These may or may not refer to the ~200ft power lines in the neighborhood. Without of a power failure they should have been +500ft before turning crosswind. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102777535042488518720.00047fce4d030d352edd3&source=embed&ll=37.464912,-122.1172&spn=0.022958,0.042872&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&#... The reality of the situation is that, like medicine, reactive measures like Bailout mechanisms will always be less successful than preventive treatments which maintain good health, here in the form of thorough annual maintenances, preflight inspections, and run-ups (testing the full operation of the engine before leaving the ground.)
  - neurotech1 17y ago
    You are likely correct on most of that, except that the cirrus chute is good down to 500 ft. That said, there are other systems that can help in accidents like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS Another option is NavFLIR / EVS which is basically a IR camera to give enhanced visibility during bad weather. If they did have an engine failure after take-off, NavFLIR could have aided a forced landing. The cause of this crash are not yet known. Feel free to email me if you want.
    - paulgerhardt 17y ago
      I was looking through the FAA AAI site (http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/ http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/prelimina...) and apparently there was an incident just a week and half ago involving a Cirrus colliding with a glider tow-rope/tow-plane at 8,000ft (about 2,500ft AGL in Boulder). This is the first time I'd seen video footage of the Cirrus shoot deployed in a non-simulation environment. Unfortunately only those onboard the glider survived. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/06/boulder-air-collision-thr_n_452328.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/06/boulder-air-collisi... (video at bottom.)

It's interesting how some people do this, yet don't give a second thought to driving together all the time.

by diego 17y ago

It's interesting how some people do this, yet don't give a second thought to driving together all the time.

True, I imagine a plane crash is very much an all or nothing venture (major and few survivors vs. minor with just injuries). Perhaps not so much with driving. Right now just speculating, but I'd be curious to if anyone's created a breakdown of traffic fatalities by # of passengers in each vehicle and # passenger fatalities. I've seen that sort of thing before, but almost always in the context of teen/new drivers. Couldn't find anything quickly, will look after work.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

neurotech1 17y ago

From experience As somebody who lost their flight status after a car wreck, driving is much more dangerous. At least in an aircraft, theres always the possibility of ejecting out, bailing out, or using a "ballistic parachute" (Cirrus makes them)to recover the plane - the problem is when the pilot doesn't realize they're in trouble until its too late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_Syste... Bailout options do exist for GA/Light Aircraft.

paulgerhardt 17y ago
Yes but those options aren't exactly practical for the most common types of incidents: power failure (especially during take-off and landing) and collisions with terrain due to inclement weather. From the limited amount of technical details available, I would guess that a combination of the two happened here. While small duel engine aircraft may be able to sustain cruising altitude under significant strain on one engine, they are notorious for not being able to climb, and particular take off with only half power - certainly not with 3 people and baggage. This is speculation, but by the looks of the location of the crash, and given that Palo Alto airport has a left hand pattern on runway 31 (that is, they fly counter-clockwise around the airport after taking off in the magnetic direction of 310 degrees) they most likely experienced a power failure during or very shortly after take off on one engine (but maybe both) and attempted to turn back to the airport to land. Interestingly +100ft transmission towers east of the airport are mentioned in FAA notices. These may or may not refer to the ~200ft power lines in the neighborhood. Without of a power failure they should have been +500ft before turning crosswind. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102777535042488518720.00047fce4d030d352edd3&source=embed&ll=37.464912,-122.1172&spn=0.022958,0.042872&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&#... The reality of the situation is that, like medicine, reactive measures like Bailout mechanisms will always be less successful than preventive treatments which maintain good health, here in the form of thorough annual maintenances, preflight inspections, and run-ups (testing the full operation of the engine before leaving the ground.)
- neurotech1 17y ago
  You are likely correct on most of that, except that the cirrus chute is good down to 500 ft. That said, there are other systems that can help in accidents like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS Another option is NavFLIR / EVS which is basically a IR camera to give enhanced visibility during bad weather. If they did have an engine failure after take-off, NavFLIR could have aided a forced landing. The cause of this crash are not yet known. Feel free to email me if you want.
  - paulgerhardt 17y ago
    I was looking through the FAA AAI site (http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/ http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/prelimina...) and apparently there was an incident just a week and half ago involving a Cirrus colliding with a glider tow-rope/tow-plane at 8,000ft (about 2,500ft AGL in Boulder). This is the first time I'd seen video footage of the Cirrus shoot deployed in a non-simulation environment. Unfortunately only those onboard the glider survived. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/06/boulder-air-collision-thr_n_452328.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/06/boulder-air-collisi... (video at bottom.)