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Sad News. This reminds me of the time I was working at a startup and the office admin booked a flight for the three founders to attend a conference or some suc

Sad News. This reminds me of the time I was working at a startup and the office admin booked a flight for the three founders to attend a conference or some such. Same flight for all three, seemed reasonable to me, but after some stern discussion that never happened again.

diego 17y ago
It's interesting how some people do this, yet don't give a second thought to driving together all the time.
- jamesbkel 17y ago
  True, I imagine a plane crash is very much an all or nothing venture (major and few survivors vs. minor with just injuries). Perhaps not so much with driving. Right now just speculating, but I'd be curious to if anyone's created a breakdown of traffic fatalities by # of passengers in each vehicle and # passenger fatalities. I've seen that sort of thing before, but almost always in the context of teen/new drivers. Couldn't find anything quickly, will look after work.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- neurotech1 17y ago
  From experience As somebody who lost their flight status after a car wreck, driving is much more dangerous. At least in an aircraft, theres always the possibility of ejecting out, bailing out, or using a "ballistic parachute" (Cirrus makes them)to recover the plane - the problem is when the pilot doesn't realize they're in trouble until its too late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_Syste... Bailout options do exist for GA/Light Aircraft.
  - paulgerhardt 17y ago
    Yes but those options aren't exactly practical for the most common types of incidents: power failure (especially during take-off and landing) and collisions with terrain due to inclement weather. From the limited amount of technical details available, I would guess that a combination of the two happened here. While small duel engine aircraft may be able to sustain cruising altitude under significant strain on one engine, they are notorious for not being able to climb, and particular take off with only half power - certainly not with 3 people and baggage. This is speculation, but by the looks of the location of the crash, and given that Palo Alto airport has a left hand pattern on runway 31 (that is, they fly counter-clockwise around the airport after taking off in the magnetic direction of 310 degrees) they most likely experienced a power failure during or very shortly after take off on one engine (but maybe both) and attempted to turn back to the airport to land. Interestingly +100ft transmission towers east of the airport are mentioned in FAA notices. These may or may not refer to the ~200ft power lines in the neighborhood. Without of a power failure they should have been +500ft before turning crosswind. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102777535042488518720.00047fce4d030d352edd3&source=embed&ll=37.464912,-122.1172&spn=0.022958,0.042872&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&#... The reality of the situation is that, like medicine, reactive measures like Bailout mechanisms will always be less successful than preventive treatments which maintain good health, here in the form of thorough annual maintenances, preflight inspections, and run-ups (testing the full operation of the engine before leaving the ground.)
    - neurotech1 17y ago
      You are likely correct on most of that, except that the cirrus chute is good down to 500 ft. That said, there are other systems that can help in accidents like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS Another option is NavFLIR / EVS which is basically a IR camera to give enhanced visibility during bad weather. If they did have an engine failure after take-off, NavFLIR could have aided a forced landing. The cause of this crash are not yet known. Feel free to email me if you want.
      - 17y ago
timdorr 17y ago
The same thing happened to Atlanta's arts community. Most of the benefactors from the area were in Paris for an event of some sort. They flew back on the same plane and it crashed, and with it went Atlanta's funding for arts. The community died the instant the benefactors did. It's really a horrible story :(
- gte910h 17y ago
  Do you have a link to a story about this? (Concerned Atlantean here)
idlewords 17y ago
It was perfectly reasonable, assuming you weren't flying a regional airline. Commercial air travel via large jets is orders of magnitude safer than civil aviation.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/safety

diego 17y ago

It's interesting how some people do this, yet don't give a second thought to driving together all the time.

jamesbkel 17y ago
True, I imagine a plane crash is very much an all or nothing venture (major and few survivors vs. minor with just injuries). Perhaps not so much with driving. Right now just speculating, but I'd be curious to if anyone's created a breakdown of traffic fatalities by # of passengers in each vehicle and # passenger fatalities. I've seen that sort of thing before, but almost always in the context of teen/new drivers. Couldn't find anything quickly, will look after work.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
neurotech1 17y ago
From experience As somebody who lost their flight status after a car wreck, driving is much more dangerous. At least in an aircraft, theres always the possibility of ejecting out, bailing out, or using a "ballistic parachute" (Cirrus makes them)to recover the plane - the problem is when the pilot doesn't realize they're in trouble until its too late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Aircraft_Parachute_Syste... Bailout options do exist for GA/Light Aircraft.
- paulgerhardt 17y ago
  Yes but those options aren't exactly practical for the most common types of incidents: power failure (especially during take-off and landing) and collisions with terrain due to inclement weather. From the limited amount of technical details available, I would guess that a combination of the two happened here. While small duel engine aircraft may be able to sustain cruising altitude under significant strain on one engine, they are notorious for not being able to climb, and particular take off with only half power - certainly not with 3 people and baggage. This is speculation, but by the looks of the location of the crash, and given that Palo Alto airport has a left hand pattern on runway 31 (that is, they fly counter-clockwise around the airport after taking off in the magnetic direction of 310 degrees) they most likely experienced a power failure during or very shortly after take off on one engine (but maybe both) and attempted to turn back to the airport to land. Interestingly +100ft transmission towers east of the airport are mentioned in FAA notices. These may or may not refer to the ~200ft power lines in the neighborhood. Without of a power failure they should have been +500ft before turning crosswind. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102777535042488518720.00047fce4d030d352edd3&source=embed&ll=37.464912,-122.1172&spn=0.022958,0.042872&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&#... The reality of the situation is that, like medicine, reactive measures like Bailout mechanisms will always be less successful than preventive treatments which maintain good health, here in the form of thorough annual maintenances, preflight inspections, and run-ups (testing the full operation of the engine before leaving the ground.)
  - neurotech1 17y ago
    You are likely correct on most of that, except that the cirrus chute is good down to 500 ft. That said, there are other systems that can help in accidents like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAWS Another option is NavFLIR / EVS which is basically a IR camera to give enhanced visibility during bad weather. If they did have an engine failure after take-off, NavFLIR could have aided a forced landing. The cause of this crash are not yet known. Feel free to email me if you want.
    - 17y ago

timdorr 17y ago

The same thing happened to Atlanta's arts community. Most of the benefactors from the area were in Paris for an event of some sort. They flew back on the same plane and it crashed, and with it went Atlanta's funding for arts. The community died the instant the benefactors did. It's really a horrible story :(

gte910h 17y ago
Do you have a link to a story about this? (Concerned Atlantean here)

idlewords 17y ago

It was perfectly reasonable, assuming you weren't flying a regional airline. Commercial air travel via large jets is orders of magnitude safer than civil aviation.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/safety