5 ms·

Toonz is one of the massive 'enterprise' animation software suites, and it used to have a price to match. But frame-by-frame cel animation - which involves wee

Toonz is one of the massive 'enterprise' animation software suites, and it used to have a price to match. But frame-by-frame cel animation - which involves weeks, months, years of tedious drawing - has been comprehensively disrupted by upstarts like Anime Studio (http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html), which uses bones and inverse kinematics to produce quality animations quickly and easily. Then there was Creature House's legendary LivingCels - the animation version of Expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creature_House_Expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creature_House_Expression). Imagine something as capable as Adobe Illustrator, but with a more intuitive interface and simpler workflow; then imagine using it to create complex animations using natural media brushes. That was a big development in 2002 (some predicted it could displace Flash), until Microsoft acquired the company, had no idea what to do next, and thus quietly killed a revolutionary product. Aside: the original Creature House version of Expression is still available as a download from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=31249 http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3124...). The Mac version is PPC only, but the Windows version works flawlessly in WINE on Mac and Linux.

alexvoda 11y ago
Is there a Windows version of the LivingCels plugin available for download? Also does the Mac version work through Rosetta?
- fractallyte 11y ago
  LivingCels was a standalone product, with a (theoretical) expiry date. The Mac version never expired, but was occasionally buggy and would unexpectedly crash. I was never able to test it through Rosetta. The Windows version was stable, but needed a 'workaround' to avoid expiring. As the software was in beta at the time of the MS acquisition, the manual was incomplete, but enough is there to be able to fully use the software. A number of animation studios in Hong Kong and Japan were very enthusiastic beta-users, so I guess it's been 'battle-tested'. Here's a working download link for the Mac version: http://forums.digitalmedianet.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fcgi?forum=expression&post=050218183520.htm http://forums.digitalmedianet.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fc... And, for an idea of what it could do, an episode of French TV show Micro.Info with a segment on LivingCels: http://micro.info/emission/emission.php?Id=156 http://micro.info/emission/emission.php?Id=156 The Windows version - particularly one that doesn't expire - may well be impossible to obtain. Although, you could always contact me, I might have a copy somewhere ;-)
gammaflow 11y ago
> But frame-by-frame cel animation - which involves weeks, months, years of tedious drawing - has been comprehensively disrupted by upstarts like Anime Studio (http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html), which uses bones and inverse kinematics to produce quality animations quickly and easily. I'd hardly say Anime Studio disrupted anything It's more like 3D suites replaced high end FBF animation, and Flash + Toon Boom replaced low end FBF animation
- Grue3 11y ago
  In Japan, hand-drawn animation is still king. They use a lot of specialized software to cut the costs though. Then there are Korean studios which produce relatively cheap hand-drawn animation for both Japan and the West.
chipsy 11y ago
In a lot of ways, FBF animation has never been disrupted so much as just temporarily displaced by other techniques for reasons of efficiency. The animator still has to make good design decisions up front so that the figure construction works and objects move in a perceptually believable way. Everything else - whether it's rotoscoping or tweening or something else - assists, but doesn't aim to truly emulate the thought process that a traditional animator uses, so you get different results that are often more mechanically precise but less interesting to watch.
- KannO 11y ago
  Animation isn't subject to camera blurs, but since mechanically precise movement is so boring to watch animators have always utilized motion and frame blurs as stylistic expressiveness. http://animationsmears.tumblr.com/archive http://animationsmears.tumblr.com/archive Given how cumbersome and glitchy Adobe's 'content awareness' algorhythm is, there's not much help for animators via software tools for that type of motion (in 2D, for 3D the general trend seems to be realism but 3D animation software has more than enough options for stylistic choices of surreal motion).
yohann305 11y ago
thx for the quick intro to the world of 2D animations. Most of us on HN are not familiar with this but we're creative people and I'm sure many others just like me, would love to use these tools someday.... someday...
- alexvoda 11y ago
  If you are interested in 2D animation software there are a few others that are worth mentioning. These packages are usually either vector based or raster based. Of the vector based I recall: - Anime Studio - Toon Boom Studio/Harmony/Animate - Macromedia/Adobe Flash/Animate - Synfig Studio (Open Source) Of the raster based: - Celsys Retas - Toonz Harlequin/Bravo - TVPaint Animation There are some others in both categories but I don't remember them right now. Feel free to add to the list.
  - wesleyhill 11y ago
    There's also Pencil2D[0] which open source. [0] https://github.com/pencil2d/pencil https://github.com/pencil2d/pencil
  - chestnut-tree 11y ago
    There's also VPaint, an open source animation program (currently in beta) for Windows and Mac. The description on their site: "VPaint is an experimental vector graphics editor based on the Vector Animation Complex (VAC), a technology developed by a collaboration of researchers at Inria and the University of British Columbia, featured at SIGGRAPH 2015. It allows you to create resolution-independent illustrations and animations using innovative techniques." http://www.vpaint.org/ http://www.vpaint.org/
  - brachi 11y ago
    Blender, recently improved its grease pencil tool, which was used for only quick 2d sketches in a 3d scene: http://aligorith.blogspot.com.ar/2015/12/grease-pencil-news-roundup-november.html http://aligorith.blogspot.com.ar/2015/12/grease-pencil-news-...
  - kinow 11y ago
elevenfist 11y ago
> Aside: the original Creature House version of Expression is still available as a download from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3124... http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3124...). The Mac version is PPC only, but the Windows version works flawlessly in WINE on Mac and Linux. The file is a .sit archive of the mac version of the program. I was unable to expand it with stuffitexpander on windows, and since it's the PPC version it will not run on my Mac. (might try rosetta)
- Flenser 11y ago
  The Windows version of Creature House Expression 3.3 is here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=31228 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=312...
  - elevenfist 11y ago
    Thank you so much for posting this!

alexvoda 11y ago

Is there a Windows version of the LivingCels plugin available for download? Also does the Mac version work through Rosetta?

fractallyte 11y ago
LivingCels was a standalone product, with a (theoretical) expiry date. The Mac version never expired, but was occasionally buggy and would unexpectedly crash. I was never able to test it through Rosetta. The Windows version was stable, but needed a 'workaround' to avoid expiring. As the software was in beta at the time of the MS acquisition, the manual was incomplete, but enough is there to be able to fully use the software. A number of animation studios in Hong Kong and Japan were very enthusiastic beta-users, so I guess it's been 'battle-tested'. Here's a working download link for the Mac version: http://forums.digitalmedianet.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fcgi?forum=expression&post=050218183520.htm http://forums.digitalmedianet.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugpost.fc... And, for an idea of what it could do, an episode of French TV show Micro.Info with a segment on LivingCels: http://micro.info/emission/emission.php?Id=156 http://micro.info/emission/emission.php?Id=156 The Windows version - particularly one that doesn't expire - may well be impossible to obtain. Although, you could always contact me, I might have a copy somewhere ;-)

gammaflow 11y ago

> But frame-by-frame cel animation - which involves weeks, months, years of tedious drawing - has been comprehensively disrupted by upstarts like Anime Studio (http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html http://my.smithmicro.com/anime-studio-pro.html), which uses bones and inverse kinematics to produce quality animations quickly and easily. I'd hardly say Anime Studio disrupted anything It's more like 3D suites replaced high end FBF animation, and Flash + Toon Boom replaced low end FBF animation

Grue3 11y ago
In Japan, hand-drawn animation is still king. They use a lot of specialized software to cut the costs though. Then there are Korean studios which produce relatively cheap hand-drawn animation for both Japan and the West.

chipsy 11y ago

In a lot of ways, FBF animation has never been disrupted so much as just temporarily displaced by other techniques for reasons of efficiency. The animator still has to make good design decisions up front so that the figure construction works and objects move in a perceptually believable way. Everything else - whether it's rotoscoping or tweening or something else - assists, but doesn't aim to truly emulate the thought process that a traditional animator uses, so you get different results that are often more mechanically precise but less interesting to watch.

KannO 11y ago
Animation isn't subject to camera blurs, but since mechanically precise movement is so boring to watch animators have always utilized motion and frame blurs as stylistic expressiveness. http://animationsmears.tumblr.com/archive http://animationsmears.tumblr.com/archive Given how cumbersome and glitchy Adobe's 'content awareness' algorhythm is, there's not much help for animators via software tools for that type of motion (in 2D, for 3D the general trend seems to be realism but 3D animation software has more than enough options for stylistic choices of surreal motion).

yohann305 11y ago

thx for the quick intro to the world of 2D animations. Most of us on HN are not familiar with this but we're creative people and I'm sure many others just like me, would love to use these tools someday.... someday...

alexvoda 11y ago
If you are interested in 2D animation software there are a few others that are worth mentioning. These packages are usually either vector based or raster based. Of the vector based I recall: - Anime Studio - Toon Boom Studio/Harmony/Animate - Macromedia/Adobe Flash/Animate - Synfig Studio (Open Source) Of the raster based: - Celsys Retas - Toonz Harlequin/Bravo - TVPaint Animation There are some others in both categories but I don't remember them right now. Feel free to add to the list.
- wesleyhill 11y ago
  There's also Pencil2D[0] which open source. [0] https://github.com/pencil2d/pencil https://github.com/pencil2d/pencil
- chestnut-tree 11y ago
  There's also VPaint, an open source animation program (currently in beta) for Windows and Mac. The description on their site: "VPaint is an experimental vector graphics editor based on the Vector Animation Complex (VAC), a technology developed by a collaboration of researchers at Inria and the University of British Columbia, featured at SIGGRAPH 2015. It allows you to create resolution-independent illustrations and animations using innovative techniques." http://www.vpaint.org/ http://www.vpaint.org/
- brachi 11y ago
  Blender, recently improved its grease pencil tool, which was used for only quick 2d sketches in a 3d scene: http://aligorith.blogspot.com.ar/2015/12/grease-pencil-news-roundup-november.html http://aligorith.blogspot.com.ar/2015/12/grease-pencil-news-...
- kinow 11y ago

elevenfist 11y ago

> Aside: the original Creature House version of Expression is still available as a download from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3124... http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3124...). The Mac version is PPC only, but the Windows version works flawlessly in WINE on Mac and Linux. The file is a .sit archive of the mac version of the program. I was unable to expand it with stuffitexpander on windows, and since it's the PPC version it will not run on my Mac. (might try rosetta)

Flenser 11y ago
The Windows version of Creature House Expression 3.3 is here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=31228 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=312...
- elevenfist 11y ago
  Thank you so much for posting this!