4 ms·

I know what Zuckerberg is supposed to have done, but what did Pmarca do that was iffy?

NSX2 19y ago
Well, he was a student, one of quite a few, working on the base code of what became Netscape Navigator. One weekend when nobody was around he decided he wanted more out of the project than research credit, so he let himself into the research lab when nobody was around, copied everyone else's code and took off to get VC funding. Later he would dismiss the whole thing in typicall dirtbag fashion, ie, "Well, you know, it's hard to recall who wrote what code, and what counts was I got it out to market first, etc." So basically he stole somebody else's work, took credit for it, and then hid behind the legitimacy that financial success brings in this country.
- pg 19y ago
  This sounds fishy to me. If he was collaborating with other people on Mozilla he wouldn't have needed to "let himself into" (= "walk into" + furtive spin) any physical place to get code. Surely he would have had access via a network. And since Mozilla was open source, wasn't he within his rights to use this code in a product? Edit: I meant Mosaic, not Mozilla.
  - NSX2 19y ago
    I don't recall all the details since this was about a decade ago, but as far as I can recall, Netscape got sued by the U. of Illinois & they wound up settling out of court for millions. In addition, as for the open-source thing, I believe it wasn't totally open-source originally which is what caused the lawsuit when Netscape distributed the browser for free. Anyway these points are off-track; in conclusion startups are secretive because while execution may be crucial, so is being realistic enough to realize you're not in the best position to execute properly and that it's best to keep your mouth shut until you are, lest someone who is in a better position to execute than you are run off with "your thing." And there are plenty of people who can/would run off with your thing, take the credit for it and not think twice about what happens to you as a result of their behavior.
    - wallflower 19y ago
      Marc deserves credit for proposing IMG. http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0182.html http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0182.ht... "I'd like to propose a new, optional HTML tag: IMG Required argument is SRC="url". This names a bitmap or pixmap file for the browser to attempt to pull over the network and interpret as an image, to be embedded in the text at the point of the tag's occurrence."
    - brlewis 19y ago
      When you make accusations you should not go on recollection. Mosaic was open source from its earliest days. Marc was not just one of many students working on it, he was the most prominent developer on the project. That's my recollection, but it's also what I find when I look for sources to cite: http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0262.html http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0262.ht...
      - NSX2 19y ago
        Actually your "source" doesn't cite anything other than that he worked on the project; I never debated that. As to whether or not he was the "most prominent developer" on the project, well, according to history as written by rich successful people, Bill Gates was the most "prominent developer" of the PC, Larry Ellison was the most "prominent developer" of the database, and Larry Wynn was the most "prominent developer" of casinos which have nothing to do with mob connections, and Donald Trump is the most "prominent developer" of mega-luxury buildings he had no hand in developing other than lending his name to. Seriously have you never been in a work situation where your boss took credit for your work and claimed he was the most "prominent developer" of something YOU did? I can't be the only one who appreciates Dilbert ...
        brlewis 19y ago
        First, a little context. You're the one challenging the general consensus of Marc's involvement with Mosaic, so the burden of proof is on you to show that he was merely one of many students involved with the project. I'm merely casting doubt on your assertion. Second, the email I cited was written in 1993, before the WWW was anything big. If, as you claim, Marc was one of many students, then he was improperly crediting the work as that of himself and one other. Someone else from NCSA would have spoken up on the www-talk list to set things straight. If you want to change your story from him being one of many students to him being the boss who took credit for his underlings' work, please be explicit about it. Also, please cite a source.
  - deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]

NSX2 19y ago

Well, he was a student, one of quite a few, working on the base code of what became Netscape Navigator. One weekend when nobody was around he decided he wanted more out of the project than research credit, so he let himself into the research lab when nobody was around, copied everyone else's code and took off to get VC funding. Later he would dismiss the whole thing in typicall dirtbag fashion, ie, "Well, you know, it's hard to recall who wrote what code, and what counts was I got it out to market first, etc." So basically he stole somebody else's work, took credit for it, and then hid behind the legitimacy that financial success brings in this country.

pg 19y ago
This sounds fishy to me. If he was collaborating with other people on Mozilla he wouldn't have needed to "let himself into" (= "walk into" + furtive spin) any physical place to get code. Surely he would have had access via a network. And since Mozilla was open source, wasn't he within his rights to use this code in a product? Edit: I meant Mosaic, not Mozilla.
- NSX2 19y ago
  I don't recall all the details since this was about a decade ago, but as far as I can recall, Netscape got sued by the U. of Illinois & they wound up settling out of court for millions. In addition, as for the open-source thing, I believe it wasn't totally open-source originally which is what caused the lawsuit when Netscape distributed the browser for free. Anyway these points are off-track; in conclusion startups are secretive because while execution may be crucial, so is being realistic enough to realize you're not in the best position to execute properly and that it's best to keep your mouth shut until you are, lest someone who is in a better position to execute than you are run off with "your thing." And there are plenty of people who can/would run off with your thing, take the credit for it and not think twice about what happens to you as a result of their behavior.
  - wallflower 19y ago
    Marc deserves credit for proposing IMG. http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0182.html http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0182.ht... "I'd like to propose a new, optional HTML tag: IMG Required argument is SRC="url". This names a bitmap or pixmap file for the browser to attempt to pull over the network and interpret as an image, to be embedded in the text at the point of the tag's occurrence."
  - brlewis 19y ago
    When you make accusations you should not go on recollection. Mosaic was open source from its earliest days. Marc was not just one of many students working on it, he was the most prominent developer on the project. That's my recollection, but it's also what I find when I look for sources to cite: http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0262.html http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1993q1/0262.ht...
    - NSX2 19y ago
      Actually your "source" doesn't cite anything other than that he worked on the project; I never debated that. As to whether or not he was the "most prominent developer" on the project, well, according to history as written by rich successful people, Bill Gates was the most "prominent developer" of the PC, Larry Ellison was the most "prominent developer" of the database, and Larry Wynn was the most "prominent developer" of casinos which have nothing to do with mob connections, and Donald Trump is the most "prominent developer" of mega-luxury buildings he had no hand in developing other than lending his name to. Seriously have you never been in a work situation where your boss took credit for your work and claimed he was the most "prominent developer" of something YOU did? I can't be the only one who appreciates Dilbert ...
      - brlewis 19y ago
        First, a little context. You're the one challenging the general consensus of Marc's involvement with Mosaic, so the burden of proof is on you to show that he was merely one of many students involved with the project. I'm merely casting doubt on your assertion. Second, the email I cited was written in 1993, before the WWW was anything big. If, as you claim, Marc was one of many students, then he was improperly crediting the work as that of himself and one other. Someone else from NCSA would have spoken up on the www-talk list to set things straight. If you want to change your story from him being one of many students to him being the boss who took credit for his underlings' work, please be explicit about it. Also, please cite a source.
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]