5 ms·

If I were making a good deal more than my peer what do I gain by being fair and honest. What makes it fair? Why shouldn't I make more or less by the skill of ne

by sosuke 11y ago

If I were making a good deal more than my peer what do I gain by being fair and honest. What makes it fair? Why shouldn't I make more or less by the skill of negotiation? I've not yet read a reason for the top paid people to talk about their salary. It seems they would have more to risk than gain and it would hurt them in the next negotiation. Not having spoken about my salary I've got no idea if I make more or less. It only matters if I am happy or not.

firewalkwithme 11y ago
Sometimes I feel I make more than I should. But I got there by identifying a need, proving myself for long periods of time, and convincing my employer I was completely necessary for the company. And I truly believe I am. It's all a game - It's a SALE! you are selling yourself at the highest possible price
coralreef 11y ago
Will you always be earning more than your peers? When it times come for a promotion or job switch, how will you research your worth?
sordina 11y ago
I don't know any general answers, but here are some scenarios: * Your colleague who did not realise that they were being highly underpaid gets a reasonable offer from another company and leaves. They were a lynchpin in the organisation and the whole company goes under. You now earn zero salary. If they were more aware of others salaries within your company they may have renegotiated and stayed. * After years of hidden salaries within the company, some colleagues salaries are leaked. What was previously imagined to be an equitable workplace is now exposed to be highly inequitable. This is felt to be a betrayal of trust by many and sows discontent within the company. The previously happy workplace is now a minefield of distrust and back-room back-stabbing. Now everyone is stressed. This situation would have never arisen if salaries were disclosed from the start. * An elite of skilled negotiators emerges within the company that far out-earns the contingent of members whose domain-skills would grant them the greater reward in a meritocracy. This leads to a bozo-effect as they rise in the ranks due to greater financial freedom. Nobody can quite pinpoint where it all started going wrong. This transition would have been transparent in a disclosed-salary scenario, and would have been suppressed. * Your conscience is plagued by guilt about the possibility that you might be robbing your equally deserving peers of their share of the pie. You don't sleep so well. If you knew that they were earning the same as you you could sleep better. You get the idea.
- sosuke 11y ago
  Those seem reasonable. I enjoyed reading your scenarios regardless; they felt like the choose your own adventure books.
bigtunacan 11y ago
Why should someone more qualified make less just because they are a bad negotiator or just unaware of what everyone makes? Employers typically want this information because as a whole it is in their favor, not the employees' favor to keep this information from being disclosed. I have experience working in both the private and public sector. Private sector salaries (USA) are typically not publicly disclosed and companies often have policies forbidding disclosure despite laws that say this is not enforceable. Public sector typically is disclosed so anyone can just look it up. My experience has been it is more difficult to negotiate salaries when salaries are not disclosed. In the negotiation it is very beneficial to show relative value and say, "I am more productive than 80% of the team, but getting paid at the median, so I deserve a raise." When salaries are unknown the company can more easily make claims that they just can't give you a raise because it wouldn't be fair to everyone else etc... You can always move to a different company, but if you aren't wanting to make a move that is not helpful.
- aantix 11y ago
  You really don't want to negotiate against the other open salaries. Know your worth; if the product you work on brings millions to the table for the company and you are the lead dev, who gives a rap if your introverted programming partner is making 100k? Know your value. Quantify yourself. Negotiate from the value you bring. Otherwise you're leaving that analysis up to someone else and their offer certainly isn't going to favor you.
  - bigtunacan 11y ago
    Worth is always relative. What metric shall I base it on? If I base it against the salary of all similarly experienced programmers in the world then it is lower than if I narrow it to just the United States. If I narrow it to the United States it may be too high if I live in a smaller rural area with less jobs and am unwilling to move. Then I can narrow it down to my region, but then I may undervalue myself as I could always telecommute. Measuring ones value is always relative and open salaries are to the benefit of the employee not the employer.
chongli 11y ago
If you want to see how it works in practice, just look at a pro sports league such as MLB. Everybody's salaries are out in the open and the players use this information, with solidarity, as a key component of their collective bargaining process. Though the top players make many times the minimum salary, they still participate and work hard as union reps advocating for all players, even those making the minimum. Now, I'm not saying this website will function anything like a union but by sharing salary information everybody can work together for greater fairness for all.
fma 11y ago
The reasons why executives of public companies make more money than before is because their compensation must be published. So when an executive goes to another job they say "Hey, so and so makes that much money and that's what CEO is worth. Pay me more than that". And hence we are where we are today when executives get paid a lot, given golden parachutes, etc. I would imagine the same would go for any position of salaries are opened up.
- sosuke 11y ago
  How does this explain the government salaries? It seems they just get more cemented.
  - fma 11y ago
    I guess the government is big enough to say take it or leave it. I actually worked for the DoD for a few years. Myself and others left for substantially more money. In government, often your salary increase is time based. Private it's merit based. Since i left 4 years ago I've increased 50%. Roughly 80k -> 120k. If I were still there, I would not surpass 100k even if I bust my ass. Just get tiny bonuses for a job well done. On the flip side I never worked more than 40 hours a week, got overtime if I did, great benefits. Real sick days (none of this, I'm sick so I'll work from home B.S.).

by sosuke 11y ago

firewalkwithme 11y ago

Sometimes I feel I make more than I should. But I got there by identifying a need, proving myself for long periods of time, and convincing my employer I was completely necessary for the company. And I truly believe I am. It's all a game - It's a SALE! you are selling yourself at the highest possible price

coralreef 11y ago

Will you always be earning more than your peers? When it times come for a promotion or job switch, how will you research your worth?

sordina 11y ago

I don't know any general answers, but here are some scenarios: * Your colleague who did not realise that they were being highly underpaid gets a reasonable offer from another company and leaves. They were a lynchpin in the organisation and the whole company goes under. You now earn zero salary. If they were more aware of others salaries within your company they may have renegotiated and stayed. * After years of hidden salaries within the company, some colleagues salaries are leaked. What was previously imagined to be an equitable workplace is now exposed to be highly inequitable. This is felt to be a betrayal of trust by many and sows discontent within the company. The previously happy workplace is now a minefield of distrust and back-room back-stabbing. Now everyone is stressed. This situation would have never arisen if salaries were disclosed from the start. * An elite of skilled negotiators emerges within the company that far out-earns the contingent of members whose domain-skills would grant them the greater reward in a meritocracy. This leads to a bozo-effect as they rise in the ranks due to greater financial freedom. Nobody can quite pinpoint where it all started going wrong. This transition would have been transparent in a disclosed-salary scenario, and would have been suppressed. * Your conscience is plagued by guilt about the possibility that you might be robbing your equally deserving peers of their share of the pie. You don't sleep so well. If you knew that they were earning the same as you you could sleep better. You get the idea.

sosuke 11y ago
Those seem reasonable. I enjoyed reading your scenarios regardless; they felt like the choose your own adventure books.

bigtunacan 11y ago

Why should someone more qualified make less just because they are a bad negotiator or just unaware of what everyone makes? Employers typically want this information because as a whole it is in their favor, not the employees' favor to keep this information from being disclosed. I have experience working in both the private and public sector. Private sector salaries (USA) are typically not publicly disclosed and companies often have policies forbidding disclosure despite laws that say this is not enforceable. Public sector typically is disclosed so anyone can just look it up. My experience has been it is more difficult to negotiate salaries when salaries are not disclosed. In the negotiation it is very beneficial to show relative value and say, "I am more productive than 80% of the team, but getting paid at the median, so I deserve a raise." When salaries are unknown the company can more easily make claims that they just can't give you a raise because it wouldn't be fair to everyone else etc... You can always move to a different company, but if you aren't wanting to make a move that is not helpful.

aantix 11y ago
You really don't want to negotiate against the other open salaries. Know your worth; if the product you work on brings millions to the table for the company and you are the lead dev, who gives a rap if your introverted programming partner is making 100k? Know your value. Quantify yourself. Negotiate from the value you bring. Otherwise you're leaving that analysis up to someone else and their offer certainly isn't going to favor you.
- bigtunacan 11y ago
  Worth is always relative. What metric shall I base it on? If I base it against the salary of all similarly experienced programmers in the world then it is lower than if I narrow it to just the United States. If I narrow it to the United States it may be too high if I live in a smaller rural area with less jobs and am unwilling to move. Then I can narrow it down to my region, but then I may undervalue myself as I could always telecommute. Measuring ones value is always relative and open salaries are to the benefit of the employee not the employer.

chongli 11y ago

If you want to see how it works in practice, just look at a pro sports league such as MLB. Everybody's salaries are out in the open and the players use this information, with solidarity, as a key component of their collective bargaining process. Though the top players make many times the minimum salary, they still participate and work hard as union reps advocating for all players, even those making the minimum. Now, I'm not saying this website will function anything like a union but by sharing salary information everybody can work together for greater fairness for all.

fma 11y ago

The reasons why executives of public companies make more money than before is because their compensation must be published. So when an executive goes to another job they say "Hey, so and so makes that much money and that's what CEO is worth. Pay me more than that". And hence we are where we are today when executives get paid a lot, given golden parachutes, etc. I would imagine the same would go for any position of salaries are opened up.

sosuke 11y ago
How does this explain the government salaries? It seems they just get more cemented.
- fma 11y ago
  I guess the government is big enough to say take it or leave it. I actually worked for the DoD for a few years. Myself and others left for substantially more money. In government, often your salary increase is time based. Private it's merit based. Since i left 4 years ago I've increased 50%. Roughly 80k -> 120k. If I were still there, I would not surpass 100k even if I bust my ass. Just get tiny bonuses for a job well done. On the flip side I never worked more than 40 hours a week, got overtime if I did, great benefits. Real sick days (none of this, I'm sick so I'll work from home B.S.).