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That’s one of the problems with data. It seems so exact but can really be so misleading. You break out charts, I break out charts. [1] My gut feeling is that

by poof131 11y ago

That’s one of the problems with data. It seems so exact but can really be so misleading. You break out charts, I break out charts. [1] My gut feeling is that much of middle class america has seen significant wage and livelihood stagnation. I’m all for free trade and a competitive economy, but something feels off about the past couple decades and the distribution of economic gains. And I don’t really trust the Federal Reserve and their CPI metrics—the institution is far too political and the members have too much skin in the game, rotating in and out of banking jobs. [1] http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

Avshalom 11y ago
Important to note there is that employer provided health care (that non-wage compensation thats supposed to be making up for stagnate wages) has been falling for the last 20 years.
yummyfajitas 11y ago
Your charts don't contradict mine. They say yearly wages for certain households have gone down, I've shown wages+benefits/hour for workers has gone up. It's true that CPI has it's flaws - inflation is wildly overstated. Medicine - one of the big drivers of increases in CPI (the other is education) is not even hedonically adjusted. If we properly measured inflation compensation would almost certainly be a lot higher. Of course if you want to ignore all data which doesn't support your preconceived notions, I can't stop you. (Incidentally the data is from the BLS, not the fed. The fed just brings all the data to one convenient site.)
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  Sounds like we're at an impasse. Both sides have their own respective stats and figures that they draw their conclusions from. The only way forward is for each side to debate the merits' of each dataset.
  - ap22213 11y ago
    If you believe this is about one 'side' vs. another, I'm not sure what we gain by having a dialogue, honestly. I'm not coming from 'a side'. I'm not battling some ideological conflict. I'm just reflecting on a reality that I and many others like me experience. Honestly, I am a pragmatist - I am not interested in an ideology or 'side' winning an intellectual battle. Maybe I was in my teens and 20s. But now, it doesn't matter what it is that works, as long as it works. I would simply like to see a system and set of policies and laws that work for most people. That has not happened in the last 40+ years, so we need a new way. I'm open to anyone's ideas, including yours. It's a collaboration, not a conflict.

by poof131 11y ago

Avshalom 11y ago

Important to note there is that employer provided health care (that non-wage compensation thats supposed to be making up for stagnate wages) has been falling for the last 20 years.

yummyfajitas 11y ago

Your charts don't contradict mine. They say yearly wages for certain households have gone down, I've shown wages+benefits/hour for workers has gone up. It's true that CPI has it's flaws - inflation is wildly overstated. Medicine - one of the big drivers of increases in CPI (the other is education) is not even hedonically adjusted. If we properly measured inflation compensation would almost certainly be a lot higher. Of course if you want to ignore all data which doesn't support your preconceived notions, I can't stop you. (Incidentally the data is from the BLS, not the fed. The fed just brings all the data to one convenient site.)

Apocryphon 11y ago
Sounds like we're at an impasse. Both sides have their own respective stats and figures that they draw their conclusions from. The only way forward is for each side to debate the merits' of each dataset.
- ap22213 11y ago
  If you believe this is about one 'side' vs. another, I'm not sure what we gain by having a dialogue, honestly. I'm not coming from 'a side'. I'm not battling some ideological conflict. I'm just reflecting on a reality that I and many others like me experience. Honestly, I am a pragmatist - I am not interested in an ideology or 'side' winning an intellectual battle. Maybe I was in my teens and 20s. But now, it doesn't matter what it is that works, as long as it works. I would simply like to see a system and set of policies and laws that work for most people. That has not happened in the last 40+ years, so we need a new way. I'm open to anyone's ideas, including yours. It's a collaboration, not a conflict.