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I would think that the Mexicans should expect their elected government to look after their interests above those of workers in some foreign country.

by jordanb 11y ago

raldi 11y ago
That's absolutely true. If you consider the plight of Mexicans less important than the plight of Americans, the factory moving to Mexico is a bad move. And I'm not being sarcastic here; such a bias is exactly what the US government is supposed to have. But as an individual, that's not my perspective on the world. Tell me if a person considers themself foremost an American or a citizen of the world, and I'll tell you their opinion on free trade agreements.
- twoodfin 11y ago
  I'm foremost an American, and I'm enthusiastically for free trade agreements. The US government is looking out for its citizens, who on the whole will benefit greatly even if particular factory workers suffer. (Also very happy that the rest of the world benefits, and not a little selfishly. I don't think people have a good conception of just how incredible life will be in a world economy where the average Chinese or Indian worker produces and earns as much as the average American worker today.)
  - raldi 11y ago
    Would you support a federal handout to former employees of factories that move operations to other countries? As you say, a small group of Americans is suffering for the benefit of the country at large; this is a way the country at large could help make up for that.
    - twoodfin 11y ago
      This is called Trade Adjustment Assistance, and AFAIK it's near criminally ineffective. I hope you can imagine a few reasons why that might be inevitable. But hey, I'll pay for tens, maybe hundreds, of billions of dollars for largely ineffective programs if it's the price of substantially freer trade.
      - raldi 11y ago
        Maybe fixing that program should be the focus of Americans' attention, instead of infighting over free trade agreements.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    > I don't think people have a good conception of just how incredible life will be in a world economy where the average Chinese or Indian worker produces and earns as much as the average American worker today. The problem is that's only going to happen because of American wages going down significantly; something Americans aren't going to think is so incredible. When the world lifestyle normalizes out eventually, the result will be the India's and China's lifestyle stepping it up a bit and the American lifestyle being reduced drastically. The whole planet cannot live the American lifestyle, we don't have those kind of resources.
    - twoodfin 11y ago
      If it could be set up, I'd be happy to bet several thousand dollars that you're wrong. It's probably not that hard to take what amounts to a proxy bet by investing in, say, US construction companies.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        It's beyond silly to try and bet on things that are decades away. If you think I'm wrong, perhaps try pointing out what you think is wrong. Do you think the Earth has enough resources for 7 billion people to live the American lifestyle? I know for a fact it doesn't, so for the whole world to live about the same lifestyle, the American lifestyle must by logical necessity be reduced.
    - raldi 11y ago
      > The whole planet cannot live the American lifestyle; we don't have those kind of resources. We would if a couple billion more people were given the opportunity to unlock their full human potential. And that's not even considering all the resource discounts we're going to be getting from AI and robotics improvements.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        > We would if a couple billion more people were given the opportunity to unlock their full human potential. No, we couldn't, the earth doesn't have the physical resources for everyone to live the American way. Robots and AI don't change that math.
  - hiram112 11y ago
    Yep. They're looking out for us so much that they can't even let us read what's in the next big agreement.
- tootie 11y ago
  I know more Chinese-born people than I know Indianans. I also spend a lot of time working with people in offices in other countries. They're good people and I automatically like them more than any American who would consider voting for Trump.
baddox 11y ago
Imagine how much better the world would be if no one thought that they were more valuable than everyone else on Earth simply because of the nation state they were born in.

I would think that the Mexicans should expect their elected government to look after their interests above those of workers in some foreign country.

by jordanb 11y ago

I would think that the Mexicans should expect their elected government to look after their interests above those of workers in some foreign country.

raldi 11y ago

That's absolutely true. If you consider the plight of Mexicans less important than the plight of Americans, the factory moving to Mexico is a bad move. And I'm not being sarcastic here; such a bias is exactly what the US government is supposed to have. But as an individual, that's not my perspective on the world. Tell me if a person considers themself foremost an American or a citizen of the world, and I'll tell you their opinion on free trade agreements.

twoodfin 11y ago
I'm foremost an American, and I'm enthusiastically for free trade agreements. The US government is looking out for its citizens, who on the whole will benefit greatly even if particular factory workers suffer. (Also very happy that the rest of the world benefits, and not a little selfishly. I don't think people have a good conception of just how incredible life will be in a world economy where the average Chinese or Indian worker produces and earns as much as the average American worker today.)
- raldi 11y ago
  Would you support a federal handout to former employees of factories that move operations to other countries? As you say, a small group of Americans is suffering for the benefit of the country at large; this is a way the country at large could help make up for that.
  - twoodfin 11y ago
    This is called Trade Adjustment Assistance, and AFAIK it's near criminally ineffective. I hope you can imagine a few reasons why that might be inevitable. But hey, I'll pay for tens, maybe hundreds, of billions of dollars for largely ineffective programs if it's the price of substantially freer trade.
    - raldi 11y ago
      Maybe fixing that program should be the focus of Americans' attention, instead of infighting over free trade agreements.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > I don't think people have a good conception of just how incredible life will be in a world economy where the average Chinese or Indian worker produces and earns as much as the average American worker today. The problem is that's only going to happen because of American wages going down significantly; something Americans aren't going to think is so incredible. When the world lifestyle normalizes out eventually, the result will be the India's and China's lifestyle stepping it up a bit and the American lifestyle being reduced drastically. The whole planet cannot live the American lifestyle, we don't have those kind of resources.
  - twoodfin 11y ago
    If it could be set up, I'd be happy to bet several thousand dollars that you're wrong. It's probably not that hard to take what amounts to a proxy bet by investing in, say, US construction companies.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      It's beyond silly to try and bet on things that are decades away. If you think I'm wrong, perhaps try pointing out what you think is wrong. Do you think the Earth has enough resources for 7 billion people to live the American lifestyle? I know for a fact it doesn't, so for the whole world to live about the same lifestyle, the American lifestyle must by logical necessity be reduced.
  - raldi 11y ago
    > The whole planet cannot live the American lifestyle; we don't have those kind of resources. We would if a couple billion more people were given the opportunity to unlock their full human potential. And that's not even considering all the resource discounts we're going to be getting from AI and robotics improvements.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      > We would if a couple billion more people were given the opportunity to unlock their full human potential. No, we couldn't, the earth doesn't have the physical resources for everyone to live the American way. Robots and AI don't change that math.
- hiram112 11y ago
  Yep. They're looking out for us so much that they can't even let us read what's in the next big agreement.
tootie 11y ago
I know more Chinese-born people than I know Indianans. I also spend a lot of time working with people in offices in other countries. They're good people and I automatically like them more than any American who would consider voting for Trump.

baddox 11y ago

Imagine how much better the world would be if no one thought that they were more valuable than everyone else on Earth simply because of the nation state they were born in.