4 ms·

I don't want to live in a world where people only study what "the market" considers valuable.

by drewrv 11y ago

maxerickson 11y ago
Any reasonable definition of the market includes the people making choices about what to study. If people are buying whatever degrees, economics says that those people are buying a degree that they consider valuable. They are paying 'the market' price for the degrees, they can't be separated from it. It's easy to observe that other actors place far less value on the degrees than the people buying them, but those people are not setting the market price for the degrees.
- shawn-furyan 11y ago
  We should be careful when talking about market characteristics of the market for college degrees, at least in the US. It is one of the markets that is most heavily skewed by government subsidies. The US approach to Government subsidies on the consumer side of privately supplied markets in college and health care mostly seems to accomplish raising the prices of college and healthcare as market providers raise prices to what the relatively hotter markets will bear.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    Yeah, I think the structures that make buyers less price sensitive are a pretty terrible idea, but the government incentives/subsidies/etc don't change the fact that students are part of the market and are the ones setting prices (it just screws up the prices they set).
cynical_sheet 11y ago
You mean you don't want to live in a world where you actually have to learn useful skills, so that you can trade with other people who have learned to do something you find useful? I've already addressed that when I mentioned 'rampant entitlement mentality'. It's people thinking that others owe them something just because they happen to be members of homo sapiens species. Entitlement 101. It's not a coincidence that most of the people studying philosophy, sociology, gender studies etc. are leftists, many even radicalized (e.g. anarcho-syndicalism in philosophy departments). That's why the leftists need a powerful state. Since they are useless parasites, they have to make money by working in government or non-profit or government-inspired jobs.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  You should probably go spout this crap on a site where the average user doesn't make six figures.
  - cynical_sheet 11y ago
    What is your point? What does people making 6 figures on this site or 7 figures on some other site matter? Is what I'm writing true or not?
    - zuminator 11y ago
      No. You're being at the least inconsistent when you on the one hand claim that it's wrong to push for a higher minimum wage (because the free market should decide what low skill jobs are "worth") and on the other hand deride sociology and gender studies as worthless when people are willing to pay a lot of money for those courses. In other words, you're not a capitalist, you're just co-opting the language of capitalism to spout a particular brand of conservative moralism.
      - pdonis 11y ago
        > people are willing to pay a lot of money for those courses. No, people are willing to have the government pay a lot of money for those courses, in the form of financial aid. People who actually have to pay for the courses themselves are far more likely to study something with actual practical value.
        zuminator 11y ago
        "Far more likely"? That's quite an assertion to make. Do you have a link? I'm genuinely curious. Also, as Apocryphon mentioned, "actual practical value" is a problematic phrase. If you mean "economic value" then just say that. But on the face of it, if you are applying for work for which the minimum qualification is a degree from an accredited college/university, then any course which gets you closer to fulfilling that qualification has some economic value.
Mikeb85 11y ago
Especially since, when that market is inevitably disrupted, all those workers are fucked. Without a proper social safety net, diversification is hedging against downturns... Besides, right now where I live, it's geologists and engineers that are unemployed. Supposedly 'safe' jobs. And finally, if everyone piles into the same industry, it drives wages down, and you'll still have plenty of grads who are unable to get a job. The problem in the end, is that, because a degree is the new HS diploma, everyone needs one, in any subject, and unemployment is the inability of the economy to absorb workers, it has nothing to do with those people choosing the 'wrong' degree anyway.

I don't want to live in a world where people only study what "the market" considers valuable.

by drewrv 11y ago

I don't want to live in a world where people only study what "the market" considers valuable.

Any reasonable definition of the market includes the people making choices about what to study. If people are buying whatever degrees, economics says that those people are buying a degree that they consider valuable. They are paying 'the market' price for the degrees, they can't be separated from it. It's easy to observe that other actors place far less value on the degrees than the people buying them, but those people are not setting the market price for the degrees.

shawn-furyan 11y ago
We should be careful when talking about market characteristics of the market for college degrees, at least in the US. It is one of the markets that is most heavily skewed by government subsidies. The US approach to Government subsidies on the consumer side of privately supplied markets in college and health care mostly seems to accomplish raising the prices of college and healthcare as market providers raise prices to what the relatively hotter markets will bear.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Yeah, I think the structures that make buyers less price sensitive are a pretty terrible idea, but the government incentives/subsidies/etc don't change the fact that students are part of the market and are the ones setting prices (it just screws up the prices they set).

cynical_sheet 11y ago

You mean you don't want to live in a world where you actually have to learn useful skills, so that you can trade with other people who have learned to do something you find useful? I've already addressed that when I mentioned 'rampant entitlement mentality'. It's people thinking that others owe them something just because they happen to be members of homo sapiens species. Entitlement 101. It's not a coincidence that most of the people studying philosophy, sociology, gender studies etc. are leftists, many even radicalized (e.g. anarcho-syndicalism in philosophy departments). That's why the leftists need a powerful state. Since they are useless parasites, they have to make money by working in government or non-profit or government-inspired jobs.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago
You should probably go spout this crap on a site where the average user doesn't make six figures.
- cynical_sheet 11y ago
  What is your point? What does people making 6 figures on this site or 7 figures on some other site matter? Is what I'm writing true or not?
  - zuminator 11y ago
    No. You're being at the least inconsistent when you on the one hand claim that it's wrong to push for a higher minimum wage (because the free market should decide what low skill jobs are "worth") and on the other hand deride sociology and gender studies as worthless when people are willing to pay a lot of money for those courses. In other words, you're not a capitalist, you're just co-opting the language of capitalism to spout a particular brand of conservative moralism.
    - pdonis 11y ago
      > people are willing to pay a lot of money for those courses. No, people are willing to have the government pay a lot of money for those courses, in the form of financial aid. People who actually have to pay for the courses themselves are far more likely to study something with actual practical value.
      - zuminator 11y ago
        "Far more likely"? That's quite an assertion to make. Do you have a link? I'm genuinely curious. Also, as Apocryphon mentioned, "actual practical value" is a problematic phrase. If you mean "economic value" then just say that. But on the face of it, if you are applying for work for which the minimum qualification is a degree from an accredited college/university, then any course which gets you closer to fulfilling that qualification has some economic value.

Mikeb85 11y ago

Especially since, when that market is inevitably disrupted, all those workers are fucked. Without a proper social safety net, diversification is hedging against downturns... Besides, right now where I live, it's geologists and engineers that are unemployed. Supposedly 'safe' jobs. And finally, if everyone piles into the same industry, it drives wages down, and you'll still have plenty of grads who are unable to get a job. The problem in the end, is that, because a degree is the new HS diploma, everyone needs one, in any subject, and unemployment is the inability of the economy to absorb workers, it has nothing to do with those people choosing the 'wrong' degree anyway.