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"Free trade" is a misnomer for what is, in practice, freedom of capital to cross borders in search of lower labor. The dynamic certainly helped transform the li

"Free trade" is a misnomer for what is, in practice, freedom of capital to cross borders in search of lower labor. The dynamic certainly helped transform the lives of many people here in China for the better -- many people made rich from creating basically widjets for walmart, but in the US, many working class people lost both their jobs and their entire communities when Capital left.

marcoperaza 11y ago
It's not a misnomer. The free movement of capital leading to more efficient allocation of labor is one aspect of free trade. But it is not the totality of it. For example, no country has as much incoming foreign direct investment as the United States.
- jordanb 11y ago
  In recent years free trade can better be seen as regulatory arbitrage: companies close down worksites in places with strong environmental and labor protections and move work to places that have neither. We've seen talks about CO2 emissions and the resistance of Asian countries against agreeing to a framework that puts the same restrictions in place for them as for the west. They clearly understand that a comparative lack of emission controls puts them at a competitive advantage. Wage arbitrage is absolutely also a factor and the western world's working class absolutely have reason to resist that because they will not come out better off in that exchange.
  - mattmanser 11y ago
    To be fair to those countries, all the developed ones already went through their major pollution fuelled growth spurt and now want to deny other countries that growth spurt. The developed countries should be disproportionately paying the cost of pollution as they caused it in the first place. I totally understand we need to stop, but it's a lot more complicated than you're presenting.
    - jordanb 11y ago
      That's a ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny style argument: technology is different than it was 100 years ago; there's no reason to "follow the same path" as the original creators of that technology along with all the miss-steps. If you mean that Asian countries want a "growth spurt" by encouraging western corporations to build facilities where they can ignore modern pollution controls, then we are in agreement. But it's a beggar-thy-neighbor policy and one that hurts our entire planet and is abetted by free-trade agreements.
      - astrostl 11y ago
        “Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don't know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.” - Ernest Hemingway
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  >For example, no country has as much incoming foreign direct investment as the United States. And has that increased the rate of new businesses being founded, decreased the price of borrowing for existing businesses, or been poured into rent-seeking asset bubbles in markets like real-estate?
Shivetya 11y ago
Free trade benefits all people. Yes there are those who also lose a bit for it too but overall it benefits all it touches either directly or indirectly. It brings the standard of living up in export countries, lower costs in import countries, and stimulates other countries to get into the act. Not all industries are viable long term. Just like milk delivery faded in many areas so will some textile jobs. There are plenty of examples of widgets being made in the US alone from companies very young. It all comes down to this, do you look only for the negative? I do know one thing is true. Any candidate campaigning on trade sanctions or the like is a loser and will make us losers too
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  >Any candidate campaigning on trade sanctions or the like is a loser Yeah, just look at Trump trail in the polls.
- Vlaix 11y ago
  >Free trade benefits all people. At this point it's not economy, it's religion.

marcoperaza 11y ago

It's not a misnomer. The free movement of capital leading to more efficient allocation of labor is one aspect of free trade. But it is not the totality of it. For example, no country has as much incoming foreign direct investment as the United States.

jordanb 11y ago
In recent years free trade can better be seen as regulatory arbitrage: companies close down worksites in places with strong environmental and labor protections and move work to places that have neither. We've seen talks about CO2 emissions and the resistance of Asian countries against agreeing to a framework that puts the same restrictions in place for them as for the west. They clearly understand that a comparative lack of emission controls puts them at a competitive advantage. Wage arbitrage is absolutely also a factor and the western world's working class absolutely have reason to resist that because they will not come out better off in that exchange.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  To be fair to those countries, all the developed ones already went through their major pollution fuelled growth spurt and now want to deny other countries that growth spurt. The developed countries should be disproportionately paying the cost of pollution as they caused it in the first place. I totally understand we need to stop, but it's a lot more complicated than you're presenting.
  - jordanb 11y ago
    That's a ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny style argument: technology is different than it was 100 years ago; there's no reason to "follow the same path" as the original creators of that technology along with all the miss-steps. If you mean that Asian countries want a "growth spurt" by encouraging western corporations to build facilities where they can ignore modern pollution controls, then we are in agreement. But it's a beggar-thy-neighbor policy and one that hurts our entire planet and is abetted by free-trade agreements.
    - astrostl 11y ago
      “Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don't know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.” - Ernest Hemingway
eli_gottlieb 11y ago
>For example, no country has as much incoming foreign direct investment as the United States. And has that increased the rate of new businesses being founded, decreased the price of borrowing for existing businesses, or been poured into rent-seeking asset bubbles in markets like real-estate?

Shivetya 11y ago

Free trade benefits all people. Yes there are those who also lose a bit for it too but overall it benefits all it touches either directly or indirectly. It brings the standard of living up in export countries, lower costs in import countries, and stimulates other countries to get into the act. Not all industries are viable long term. Just like milk delivery faded in many areas so will some textile jobs. There are plenty of examples of widgets being made in the US alone from companies very young. It all comes down to this, do you look only for the negative? I do know one thing is true. Any candidate campaigning on trade sanctions or the like is a loser and will make us losers too

crdoconnor 11y ago
>Any candidate campaigning on trade sanctions or the like is a loser Yeah, just look at Trump trail in the polls.
Vlaix 11y ago
>Free trade benefits all people. At this point it's not economy, it's religion.