3 ms·

Comparing Clojure and Scala as 'Java replacements'

3 points by fogus 17y ago

dkersten 17y ago
As much as I like Clojure (and believe me, I do), I don't see it ever replacing Java, simply because its syntax is too different from the mainstream. Hell, I know people right here on HN who don't like Clojure (or other Lisps) and simply refuse to even really look at them, simply because of the parentheses! IMHO thats a bit of a stupid reason to discount a (potentially - depending on the specific use case) superior tool, but its a real issue for some people. While Scala is different form Java, being a predominantly functional language, its syntax is close enough, IMHO, that I could see it replacing Java. tl;dr: I don't think Clojure will ever be mainstream enough to replace Java, but Scala might have a real chance.
- gtani 17y ago
  Scala: I seem to remember some "Is it ready for the enterprise, programming in the large, giant consulting firms with giant RFP's yet/soon?" threads/blogs which i can't find. Also some "average developers get python, ruby and java just fine, but they're not going to get scala and clojure". I've heard chatter from friends and on the tubes that they're going to convert their humongous java dev teams "soon" but the main knocks are: - problems in plugins for eclipse, intelliJ, and netBeans, (assuming it survives in some supported form - it's taken so long to get 2.8 beta out: Well, nobody said it would be easy. - OO type inference, FP, scripting, what is scala?; you can use scala as a scripting language, use a small language subset, apply regexes and maps and cut up apache logfiles easily just as in python or ruby. - Or you can spend a lot of time reading about actors(akka, kilim, lift), and STM / agents and come to the conclusion the language is heavily in flux http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1150369 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1150369 http://www.jroller.com/vaclav/entry/secret_agents_in_scala http://www.jroller.com/vaclav/entry/secret_agents_in_scala (and goat rodeo) - Or you can read the Oreilly and Artima books on the type system, figure out how it's designed for development in the large. And go back and read Guido's ,um, what do you call them, jeremiads or screed or something like that.

3 points by fogus 17y ago

As much as I like Clojure (and believe me, I do), I don't see it ever replacing Java, simply because its syntax is too different from the mainstream. Hell, I know people right here on HN who don't like Clojure (or other Lisps) and simply refuse to even really look at them, simply because of the parentheses! IMHO thats a bit of a stupid reason to discount a (potentially - depending on the specific use case) superior tool, but its a real issue for some people. While Scala is different form Java, being a predominantly functional language, its syntax is close enough, IMHO, that I could see it replacing Java. tl;dr: I don't think Clojure will ever be mainstream enough to replace Java, but Scala might have a real chance.

gtani 17y ago
Scala: I seem to remember some "Is it ready for the enterprise, programming in the large, giant consulting firms with giant RFP's yet/soon?" threads/blogs which i can't find. Also some "average developers get python, ruby and java just fine, but they're not going to get scala and clojure". I've heard chatter from friends and on the tubes that they're going to convert their humongous java dev teams "soon" but the main knocks are: - problems in plugins for eclipse, intelliJ, and netBeans, (assuming it survives in some supported form - it's taken so long to get 2.8 beta out: Well, nobody said it would be easy. - OO type inference, FP, scripting, what is scala?; you can use scala as a scripting language, use a small language subset, apply regexes and maps and cut up apache logfiles easily just as in python or ruby. - Or you can spend a lot of time reading about actors(akka, kilim, lift), and STM / agents and come to the conclusion the language is heavily in flux http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1150369 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1150369 http://www.jroller.com/vaclav/entry/secret_agents_in_scala http://www.jroller.com/vaclav/entry/secret_agents_in_scala (and goat rodeo) - Or you can read the Oreilly and Artima books on the type system, figure out how it's designed for development in the large. And go back and read Guido's ,um, what do you call them, jeremiads or screed or something like that.