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Which is weird because we're constantly told there's a massive shortage of developers in london

by UK-AL 11y ago

mamon 11y ago
There is a shortage of GOOD developers, because many people only enroll to CS universities tempted by higher than average salary, not because they really like programming. Also, UK is a part of European Union, which makes London based developers compete with immigrants from countries like Poland, Hungary, Romania, who will be happy with much lower salaries.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  who will be happy with much lower salaries. You'd think that but you'd be wrong. It's true that fresh immigrants might have a low salary ask, but folks wise up pretty quickly to their worth in the UK - which is just as well, as otherwise it'd lead to exploitation and would drag overall salaries down. No, the supply and demand bit doesn't hold true - it's cultural. We undervalue technical skill here, severely, and have for several generations. It's seen as somehow dirty.
  - polotics 11y ago
    You are spot on: it's cultural. The British class society has inbuilt superiority for some, regardless of economic contribution. It is a monarchy after all, what should we expect. Reminds me of facepalm moments in Bracknell a while back. Maybe things have improved since then, I wouldn't know: I left that country.
- gambiting 11y ago
  I know plenty of programmers from those countries in the UK, and they will be happy with a lower salary in their first year, but as soon as they realise that everyone else is being paid much more they leave and demand the same salaries.
mabbo 11y ago
If there were, you'd see wages going up. You'd have people telling you to switch jobs every year or two to keep increasing your pay. Toronto (where I am) is similar to London. There are some jobs that pay well, but the average and median are far lower than I could get if I had stayed out west.
UK-AL 11y ago
If they wanted to attract good developers, surerly the price would go up as well? Good software developers are probably already employed in good positions so you need to raise the price to get them to apply.

Which is weird because we're constantly told there's a massive shortage of developers in london

by UK-AL 11y ago

Which is weird because we're constantly told there's a massive shortage of developers in london

mamon 11y ago

There is a shortage of GOOD developers, because many people only enroll to CS universities tempted by higher than average salary, not because they really like programming. Also, UK is a part of European Union, which makes London based developers compete with immigrants from countries like Poland, Hungary, Romania, who will be happy with much lower salaries.

madaxe_again 11y ago
who will be happy with much lower salaries. You'd think that but you'd be wrong. It's true that fresh immigrants might have a low salary ask, but folks wise up pretty quickly to their worth in the UK - which is just as well, as otherwise it'd lead to exploitation and would drag overall salaries down. No, the supply and demand bit doesn't hold true - it's cultural. We undervalue technical skill here, severely, and have for several generations. It's seen as somehow dirty.
- polotics 11y ago
  You are spot on: it's cultural. The British class society has inbuilt superiority for some, regardless of economic contribution. It is a monarchy after all, what should we expect. Reminds me of facepalm moments in Bracknell a while back. Maybe things have improved since then, I wouldn't know: I left that country.
gambiting 11y ago
I know plenty of programmers from those countries in the UK, and they will be happy with a lower salary in their first year, but as soon as they realise that everyone else is being paid much more they leave and demand the same salaries.

mabbo 11y ago

If there were, you'd see wages going up. You'd have people telling you to switch jobs every year or two to keep increasing your pay. Toronto (where I am) is similar to London. There are some jobs that pay well, but the average and median are far lower than I could get if I had stayed out west.

UK-AL 11y ago

If they wanted to attract good developers, surerly the price would go up as well? Good software developers are probably already employed in good positions so you need to raise the price to get them to apply.