4 ms·

If you are writing basic CRUD apps, 12 weeks of good instruction can make you (somewhat) productive. One of my former employers (ThoughtWorks) had a 6 week 'imm

If you are writing basic CRUD apps, 12 weeks of good instruction can make you (somewhat) productive. One of my former employers (ThoughtWorks) had a 6 week 'immersion' programming training, which ramped up people just out of school to a point where they were able to contribute to a production app in that period. Of course, they had plenty of ongoing mentoring and supervision, a great company culture (given enterprise services) and so on, but it can be done, for some definition of 'done'[1] But as the amount of theory/Computer Science knowledge required in your job increases, the less relevance these boot camps have. I personally think of bootcamps as a borderline scam engaged in a 'shovels in gold rush' business. Any half way motivated individual with a laptop and internet connection can learn their syllabus for free, but it takes a certain type of individual to do that, who is not dependent on external discipline, can tolerate ambiguity etc. And if I'm hiring, even for a CRUD job, I would be very dubious about bootcamp resumes (just a personal opinion, YMMV). They seem to combine the worst of credentialing, and frivolous 'education'. [1] Whether that ultra basic knowledge is worth the insane amounts charged by some of these 'boot camps' is a different issue altogether. As a completely self taught developer, I would never pay those amounts for that amount of learning, but hey different strokes for different folks.

uptownJimmy 11y ago
I'm a technical college graduate, so I have no pretensions about this stuff. But I view the bootcamps as part of the current frothiness and dysfunction around front-end development in general. The idea that one is prepared to grapple with software applications development without AT LEAST 2-3 years of intense study is absurd to me. After school, I still needed a year of interning to get up to speed.
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emcq 11y ago
If you look at the graduates of the top bootcamps, these are folks who studied music theory at Harvard, physics at Yale, math at Stanford, EE at UMich, mechanical engineering at UC Berkeley, etc. These are very smart folks who have proven themselves in their career and education to dive into new challenges. They have often already taken a few online courses. The acceptance rate is very low (5% or less) and the job placement rates are very high (over 90%). These aren't diploma mills and the connections, intensive study, preparation for interviews, negotiation, resume review, peer support group, help finding positions, etc you simply don't get on your own. The good bootcamps provide significantly more than just learning programming.
wodenokoto 11y ago
I think it takes more than "halfway motivated" to get far with self study. Looking around barely anyone manages to do that, so I think it would be safe to say "very motivated and stubborn" individuals.

uptownJimmy 11y ago

I'm a technical college graduate, so I have no pretensions about this stuff. But I view the bootcamps as part of the current frothiness and dysfunction around front-end development in general. The idea that one is prepared to grapple with software applications development without AT LEAST 2-3 years of intense study is absurd to me. After school, I still needed a year of interning to get up to speed.

deleted 11y ago
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emcq 11y ago

If you look at the graduates of the top bootcamps, these are folks who studied music theory at Harvard, physics at Yale, math at Stanford, EE at UMich, mechanical engineering at UC Berkeley, etc. These are very smart folks who have proven themselves in their career and education to dive into new challenges. They have often already taken a few online courses. The acceptance rate is very low (5% or less) and the job placement rates are very high (over 90%). These aren't diploma mills and the connections, intensive study, preparation for interviews, negotiation, resume review, peer support group, help finding positions, etc you simply don't get on your own. The good bootcamps provide significantly more than just learning programming.

wodenokoto 11y ago

I think it takes more than "halfway motivated" to get far with self study. Looking around barely anyone manages to do that, so I think it would be safe to say "very motivated and stubborn" individuals.