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Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is qu

Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different.

nilkn 11y ago
In general I'd agree with you, but a ~$70k salary really is not that high for a decent developer with two years of experience, even with a signing bonus and stock options. I'm not in a major tech hub. Keep in mind also that Amazon is not some tiny startup strapped for cash. It's a big player in the industry and their hiring standards are rigorous.
- cthalupa 11y ago
  Amazon offers RSUs, not stock options. Once they vest, they are yours without having had to purchase them.
- ryanSrich 11y ago
  $70k is severely underpaid for final comp. The OP said in a follow up comment that his total comp is close to $130k which is a very good wage.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    Good wage, yes. But remember the median price of a home in Seattle is well over $500k. You're looking at something at least $600-700k+ to be in an area without a crazy commute or other problems. Most people I know that are just starting a family have homes over $1M. $130k doesn't go super far when housing is that expensive.
  - billhendricksjr 11y ago
    Agreed, that's way under market. At Intuit's San Diego office in 2013, we were hiring college graduate software engineers for $75k base. Add another 15-20% for total comp (bonus, RSU, ESPP).
boren_ave11 11y ago
>>Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". "Underpaid" and "overpaid" are relative terms. If you currently earn less than what you can expect to receive elsewhere for the same work, you are underpaid. >>In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different. Interestingly enough, this is precisely the sort of thing that this very thread is attempting to challenge. Have you noticed how many "wow I am seriously underpaid" comments have been posted? All of this reminds me of a quote by Michael Corleone in The Godfather: Never be embarrassed by your wealth. This recent contempt for money is still another trick of the rich to keep the poor without it.
mason55 11y ago
> In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different. This package would be underpaid for pretty much any pure tech company on a coast.
ef4 11y ago
Outside of the actual software industry, sure. But rule #1 of getting paid well as a developer is to work for a software company. It's not just the big few who pay really well. There are whole constellations of medium to small software companies you've never heard of that pay very well. The differentiator is that they see software as a strategic asset, not just a cost of doing business.
hibikir 11y ago
70k salary is junior money in St.Louis. Absolutely average senior devs make 100-120. Good ones do long term consulting, and get closer to the 200k range. The best I have seen for a local company is about 250k a year, for truly shiny people.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  Then I'm doing something seriously wrong, because I have been an engineer in Dallas for fourteen years (eight writing software full-time) and I have never made over $93k. Never had stock or a meaningful bonus, either.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    Start interviewing and don't be afraid to push for double your current salary, or more. Maybe time to think about moving to a coast too.

Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different.

nilkn 11y ago

In general I'd agree with you, but a ~$70k salary really is not that high for a decent developer with two years of experience, even with a signing bonus and stock options. I'm not in a major tech hub. Keep in mind also that Amazon is not some tiny startup strapped for cash. It's a big player in the industry and their hiring standards are rigorous.

cthalupa 11y ago
Amazon offers RSUs, not stock options. Once they vest, they are yours without having had to purchase them.
ryanSrich 11y ago
$70k is severely underpaid for final comp. The OP said in a follow up comment that his total comp is close to $130k which is a very good wage.
- tdicola 11y ago
  Good wage, yes. But remember the median price of a home in Seattle is well over $500k. You're looking at something at least $600-700k+ to be in an area without a crazy commute or other problems. Most people I know that are just starting a family have homes over $1M. $130k doesn't go super far when housing is that expensive.
- billhendricksjr 11y ago
  Agreed, that's way under market. At Intuit's San Diego office in 2013, we were hiring college graduate software engineers for $75k base. Add another 15-20% for total comp (bonus, RSU, ESPP).

boren_ave11 11y ago

>>Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". "Underpaid" and "overpaid" are relative terms. If you currently earn less than what you can expect to receive elsewhere for the same work, you are underpaid. >>In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different. Interestingly enough, this is precisely the sort of thing that this very thread is attempting to challenge. Have you noticed how many "wow I am seriously underpaid" comments have been posted? All of this reminds me of a quote by Michael Corleone in The Godfather: Never be embarrassed by your wealth. This recent contempt for money is still another trick of the rich to keep the poor without it.

mason55 11y ago

> In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different. This package would be underpaid for pretty much any pure tech company on a coast.

ef4 11y ago

Outside of the actual software industry, sure. But rule #1 of getting paid well as a developer is to work for a software company. It's not just the big few who pay really well. There are whole constellations of medium to small software companies you've never heard of that pay very well. The differentiator is that they see software as a strategic asset, not just a cost of doing business.

hibikir 11y ago

70k salary is junior money in St.Louis. Absolutely average senior devs make 100-120. Good ones do long term consulting, and get closer to the 200k range. The best I have seen for a local company is about 250k a year, for truly shiny people.

vonmoltke 11y ago
Then I'm doing something seriously wrong, because I have been an engineer in Dallas for fourteen years (eight writing software full-time) and I have never made over $93k. Never had stock or a meaningful bonus, either.
- tdicola 11y ago
  Start interviewing and don't be afraid to push for double your current salary, or more. Maybe time to think about moving to a coast too.