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> Powder cocaine is literally the same drug as crack cocaine Highly incorrect. Smoking an equivalent amount of cocaine-base (crack) vs snorting cocaine-HCL (p

> Powder cocaine is literally the same drug as crack cocaine Highly incorrect. Smoking an equivalent amount of cocaine-base (crack) vs snorting cocaine-HCL (powder) is a completely different experience due to purity, ROA, and absorption (surface area of lungs vs nasal passage is 50x), etc. Not to mention that is not an ionic bond, it is covalent. Different molecule.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> Smoking an equivalent amount of cocaine-base (crack) vs snorting cocaine-HCL (powder) is a completely different experience This boils down to "the means of ingestion of a drug has a significant effect on the effects of the drug". Anybody who has ever both smoked a joint and consumed THC edibles knows firsthand that this is the case. Insufflation and ingestion are different from inhalation, so yes, the experience, onset, reinforcement mechanisms would be different. That does not change the fact that they are fundamentally the same drug. > Not to mention that is not an ionic bond, it is covalent. Different molecule. It's not the form it's transported in that's relevant; it's the form that reaches the CNS that matters[0]. In this case, the pharmacokinetics of the two drugs are the same once they hit the bloodstream. If that doesn't convince you, the consider that the effects of injecting crack cocaine[1] and powder cocaine are literally chemically identical. [0] Actually, it's the pharmacokinetic process of the drug that's relevant, since two different molecules can be metabolized identically. (And not all drugs affect the CNS, but that's a side point). [1] Less common, because smoking is logistically easier, and also results in a sharper onset since it saves half the round trip to the lungs. But it does happen.
- powertower 11y ago
  > In this case, the pharmacokinetics of the two drugs are the same once they hit the bloodstream. Highly incorrect. The amount of the drug and concentration of the drug and the salt or ester of the drug can impact the pharmacokinetics of the drug. It was used to be thought that morphine and heroin was the same exact thing because the H was converted to morphine quickly. Except H ends up having different metabolites and ratios - not the mention the effects are not the same / even when accounted for the dose and ROA. Also, to the main point, if one produces 10x the effect of the other, the point is the same... Crack is severely more punished over cocaine because it severely impacts user behavior - much more so than cocaine. The campaign to punish crack possession was also largely due to blacks demanding it to be made as so.
  - chimeracoder 11y ago
    > The amount of the drug and concentration of the drug and the salt or ester of the drug can impact the pharmacokinetics of the drug. Can, but in the case of crack cocaine vs. powder cocaine, they demonstrably do not[0][1]. > Crack is severely more punished over cocaine because it severely impacts user behavior - much more so than cocaine It really does not. It can be (but is not always) more habit-forming to smoke a drug than to insufflate it, but this is true of all substances. And intravenous or subcutaneous use of crack cocaine and powder cocaine are literally, 100% identical. > The campaign to punish crack possession was also largely due to blacks demanding it to be made as so. No. There was support from within the black community, but to say it is "largely" due to this is overstating the case. And getting back to the original point, that doesn't actually contradict the original statement, because the reason that black communities felt the impact of violent drug crime and white communities didn't is itself a direct effect of the racial power structures involved. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926741 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926741 [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918856 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918856
    - powertower 11y ago
      Your references support my statements... "However, evidence exists showing a greater abuse liability, greater propensity for dependence, and more severe consequences when cocaine is smoked (cocaine-base) or injected intravenously (cocaine hydrochloride) compared with intranasal use (cocaine hydrochloride).)." The fact that the effects are different, even with the "same drug". > the reason that black communities felt the impact of violent drug crime and white communities didn't is itself a direct effect of the racial power structures involved. Except no matter where you go in the world, no matter its racial break-down, and no matter what it's history is, the pattern is the same: blacks disproportionately commit violent acts. And when those places are near 100% black, it gets even worse. > And intravenous or subcutaneous use of crack cocaine and powder cocaine are literally, 100% identical. We are comparing powder cocaine insufflated with crack smoked and how that impacted black communities.
      - chimeracoder 11y ago

chimeracoder 11y ago

> Smoking an equivalent amount of cocaine-base (crack) vs snorting cocaine-HCL (powder) is a completely different experience This boils down to "the means of ingestion of a drug has a significant effect on the effects of the drug". Anybody who has ever both smoked a joint and consumed THC edibles knows firsthand that this is the case. Insufflation and ingestion are different from inhalation, so yes, the experience, onset, reinforcement mechanisms would be different. That does not change the fact that they are fundamentally the same drug. > Not to mention that is not an ionic bond, it is covalent. Different molecule. It's not the form it's transported in that's relevant; it's the form that reaches the CNS that matters[0]. In this case, the pharmacokinetics of the two drugs are the same once they hit the bloodstream. If that doesn't convince you, the consider that the effects of injecting crack cocaine[1] and powder cocaine are literally chemically identical. [0] Actually, it's the pharmacokinetic process of the drug that's relevant, since two different molecules can be metabolized identically. (And not all drugs affect the CNS, but that's a side point). [1] Less common, because smoking is logistically easier, and also results in a sharper onset since it saves half the round trip to the lungs. But it does happen.

powertower 11y ago
> In this case, the pharmacokinetics of the two drugs are the same once they hit the bloodstream. Highly incorrect. The amount of the drug and concentration of the drug and the salt or ester of the drug can impact the pharmacokinetics of the drug. It was used to be thought that morphine and heroin was the same exact thing because the H was converted to morphine quickly. Except H ends up having different metabolites and ratios - not the mention the effects are not the same / even when accounted for the dose and ROA. Also, to the main point, if one produces 10x the effect of the other, the point is the same... Crack is severely more punished over cocaine because it severely impacts user behavior - much more so than cocaine. The campaign to punish crack possession was also largely due to blacks demanding it to be made as so.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > The amount of the drug and concentration of the drug and the salt or ester of the drug can impact the pharmacokinetics of the drug. Can, but in the case of crack cocaine vs. powder cocaine, they demonstrably do not[0][1]. > Crack is severely more punished over cocaine because it severely impacts user behavior - much more so than cocaine It really does not. It can be (but is not always) more habit-forming to smoke a drug than to insufflate it, but this is true of all substances. And intravenous or subcutaneous use of crack cocaine and powder cocaine are literally, 100% identical. > The campaign to punish crack possession was also largely due to blacks demanding it to be made as so. No. There was support from within the black community, but to say it is "largely" due to this is overstating the case. And getting back to the original point, that doesn't actually contradict the original statement, because the reason that black communities felt the impact of violent drug crime and white communities didn't is itself a direct effect of the racial power structures involved. [0] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926741 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926741 [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918856 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8918856
  - powertower 11y ago
    Your references support my statements... "However, evidence exists showing a greater abuse liability, greater propensity for dependence, and more severe consequences when cocaine is smoked (cocaine-base) or injected intravenously (cocaine hydrochloride) compared with intranasal use (cocaine hydrochloride).)." The fact that the effects are different, even with the "same drug". > the reason that black communities felt the impact of violent drug crime and white communities didn't is itself a direct effect of the racial power structures involved. Except no matter where you go in the world, no matter its racial break-down, and no matter what it's history is, the pattern is the same: blacks disproportionately commit violent acts. And when those places are near 100% black, it gets even worse. > And intravenous or subcutaneous use of crack cocaine and powder cocaine are literally, 100% identical. We are comparing powder cocaine insufflated with crack smoked and how that impacted black communities.
    - chimeracoder 11y ago