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Whoa easy with the name calling. I'd personally love a less restrictive immigration system. But OPT and H1B are very restrictive and benefit employers much mor

Whoa easy with the name calling. I'd personally love a less restrictive immigration system. But OPT and H1B are very restrictive and benefit employers much more than they benefit society. The government and those that control the immigration system serves the people and I think they sometimes forget that and come up with policies that are very beneficial to employers at the expense of the middle class. I think this is part of a major systemic issue that is leading to the squeeze on the middle class. One of these days I'm going to write that blog titled something like "How to take a position against current immigration policies and not be called a xenophobe".

winter_blue 11y ago
Even with all their flaws, these visas are extremely beneficial to the immigrants themselves, above anyone else. The rare and lucky opportunity to build a life in the United States and become a citizen of the United States is priceless, and just a dream from most. This dream is out of reach for most people who would like to come here, and the few that do make it here use one of these visas. That is why people like me freak out when people on HN (and elsewhere) rail against these visas. If these visas were harder to get (than they already are), most of us (including me) wouldn't be here -- or worse, the ones of us already here would get deported. There are two groups of people: (1) those that call for a better system where companies cannot displace native-born workers, where the visa holders cannot be exploited, and have more freedom and an easier route to a green card (2) people that call for a shutdown or massive reduction of all immigration, both legal and illegal; people that say there is no labor shortage whatsoever, so we shouldn't let anyone in It is the second group that worries me. Most Democratic lawmakers, and at least a third (to half) of the republican lawmakers take the earlier (1) view. They make me happy. E.g. Chuck Schumer. It is just that there are a few lone voices in the mainstream media who hold on to the (2) view. Like the Tea Party. Their reasons have less to with jobs and wages, and much more to do with "preserving American culture and values". What is shocking and sad is that I find many here on Hacker News, a place I expect to be fairly progressive, holding the same extreme anti-immigration views as the far-right.
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  You are not entitled to come to the US and work no matter how much you dream of it according to US law. You are young, make average $$ (and yes, at 150k total comp you are underpaid for a software developer in relation to the value you create), and you don't have skills that don't already exist within our borders or that can't be taught. I'm not too concerned about you not being here because you are actually displacing the best and brightest that I'd rather have immigrate here. The spirit of the H-1B program when it was introduced was to import the truly talented, not your average software developer with a bachelors degree. Over time the law has been bent and rewritten and abused by our industry to cut costs for the benefit of share holders and executives.
  - winter_blue 11y ago
    I've never come across such a hate and spite-filled reply before. Like every other anti-immigrant person on HN, you stubbornly insist on believing in lies: > But OPT and H1B are very restrictive and benefit employers Have you ever been on OPT or an H-1B? I don't find either one restrictive. They restrict you to jobs related to your major, but they both allow you to change jobs freely. I can get any tech job I want, because practically every company is willing to do an H-1B transfer. You are lying when you say it is restrictive. > the H-1B program when it was introduced was to import the truly talented What is your definition of "truly talented"? A PhD? Nobel Prize winner? Most of the immigrant $100M+ startup founders would likely not be allowed in the country under your definition. And you say: "the law has been abused"? The law requires: (1) a bachelor's degree in the job area, (2) job offer at prevailing wages or higher. Those are the conditions the law set. You are lying when you say the law says otherwise. Also, I don't mean to boast, but $150k is definitely not average. According to DOL, it is in the top 20th percentile for software developers in NYC metropolitan area. The average is $111,120, c.f. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm You lie yet again. You keep touting lies, and refuse to stop believing in those lies when confronted with the truth. Unless you are native American, your ancestors immigrated here in the last couple hundred years. Do you know what standard was required of immigrants then? None. The majority of immigrants back then (from Europe) were actually illiterate. Your hatefulness, heartlessness, and callousness are repugnant, shameful, and an anathema to this country.

winter_blue 11y ago

Even with all their flaws, these visas are extremely beneficial to the immigrants themselves, above anyone else. The rare and lucky opportunity to build a life in the United States and become a citizen of the United States is priceless, and just a dream from most. This dream is out of reach for most people who would like to come here, and the few that do make it here use one of these visas. That is why people like me freak out when people on HN (and elsewhere) rail against these visas. If these visas were harder to get (than they already are), most of us (including me) wouldn't be here -- or worse, the ones of us already here would get deported. There are two groups of people: (1) those that call for a better system where companies cannot displace native-born workers, where the visa holders cannot be exploited, and have more freedom and an easier route to a green card (2) people that call for a shutdown or massive reduction of all immigration, both legal and illegal; people that say there is no labor shortage whatsoever, so we shouldn't let anyone in It is the second group that worries me. Most Democratic lawmakers, and at least a third (to half) of the republican lawmakers take the earlier (1) view. They make me happy. E.g. Chuck Schumer. It is just that there are a few lone voices in the mainstream media who hold on to the (2) view. Like the Tea Party. Their reasons have less to with jobs and wages, and much more to do with "preserving American culture and values". What is shocking and sad is that I find many here on Hacker News, a place I expect to be fairly progressive, holding the same extreme anti-immigration views as the far-right.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
You are not entitled to come to the US and work no matter how much you dream of it according to US law. You are young, make average $$ (and yes, at 150k total comp you are underpaid for a software developer in relation to the value you create), and you don't have skills that don't already exist within our borders or that can't be taught. I'm not too concerned about you not being here because you are actually displacing the best and brightest that I'd rather have immigrate here. The spirit of the H-1B program when it was introduced was to import the truly talented, not your average software developer with a bachelors degree. Over time the law has been bent and rewritten and abused by our industry to cut costs for the benefit of share holders and executives.
- winter_blue 11y ago
  I've never come across such a hate and spite-filled reply before. Like every other anti-immigrant person on HN, you stubbornly insist on believing in lies: > But OPT and H1B are very restrictive and benefit employers Have you ever been on OPT or an H-1B? I don't find either one restrictive. They restrict you to jobs related to your major, but they both allow you to change jobs freely. I can get any tech job I want, because practically every company is willing to do an H-1B transfer. You are lying when you say it is restrictive. > the H-1B program when it was introduced was to import the truly talented What is your definition of "truly talented"? A PhD? Nobel Prize winner? Most of the immigrant $100M+ startup founders would likely not be allowed in the country under your definition. And you say: "the law has been abused"? The law requires: (1) a bachelor's degree in the job area, (2) job offer at prevailing wages or higher. Those are the conditions the law set. You are lying when you say the law says otherwise. Also, I don't mean to boast, but $150k is definitely not average. According to DOL, it is in the top 20th percentile for software developers in NYC metropolitan area. The average is $111,120, c.f. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm You lie yet again. You keep touting lies, and refuse to stop believing in those lies when confronted with the truth. Unless you are native American, your ancestors immigrated here in the last couple hundred years. Do you know what standard was required of immigrants then? None. The majority of immigrants back then (from Europe) were actually illiterate. Your hatefulness, heartlessness, and callousness are repugnant, shameful, and an anathema to this country.