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> The preference function (or oracle) can return a truth value without you necessarily having insight into its inner workings. Is this preference function impl

> The preference function (or oracle) can return a truth value without you necessarily having insight into its inner workings. Is this preference function implemented on a computer, or is it just a person giving you seemingly random answers in response to whatever you tell them? > People "know it when they see it" without necessarily being able to define it. That path leads to hell. > After a solution has been found, then you can write tests. what exactly would you test? Tests make sense when you want to check that your implementation conforms to a certain set of logical rules, but where exactly is the logic in the process you outlined?

douche 11y ago
Where is the logic in most business logic? \s Seemingly random answers, which are not functionally pure (aka ask the same question, get the same answer) are par for the course
barrkel 11y ago
> > People "know it when they see it" without necessarily being able to define it. > That path leads to hell. That's why they pay us the big bucks. If people could define their problems well enough without iterative design, waterfall development would be a success story and all software would be outsourced to the lowest bidder.
- catnaroek 11y ago
  That's wrong. It's perfectly possible to define your problem well, and still require an iterative process to find a good solution.
  - barrkel 11y ago
    The requirement for an iterative process is what I mean by "oracle"; it's the thing that tells you how far off you are on this iteration, and how to change your heading for the next iteration.
    - catnaroek 11y ago
      That's a rather weird use of the term “oracle”, which normally means “a black box that solves a decision problem in a single step”. Normally, to decide whether you've achieved your goals, you don't use a black box - you use performance metrics that you've defined yourself (and thus can't claim not to understand).

douche 11y ago

Where is the logic in most business logic? \s Seemingly random answers, which are not functionally pure (aka ask the same question, get the same answer) are par for the course

barrkel 11y ago

> > People "know it when they see it" without necessarily being able to define it. > That path leads to hell. That's why they pay us the big bucks. If people could define their problems well enough without iterative design, waterfall development would be a success story and all software would be outsourced to the lowest bidder.

catnaroek 11y ago
That's wrong. It's perfectly possible to define your problem well, and still require an iterative process to find a good solution.
- barrkel 11y ago
  The requirement for an iterative process is what I mean by "oracle"; it's the thing that tells you how far off you are on this iteration, and how to change your heading for the next iteration.
  - catnaroek 11y ago
    That's a rather weird use of the term “oracle”, which normally means “a black box that solves a decision problem in a single step”. Normally, to decide whether you've achieved your goals, you don't use a black box - you use performance metrics that you've defined yourself (and thus can't claim not to understand).