5 ms·

This is just bad statistics. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-

by ikeboy 11y ago

This is just bad statistics. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-m... >For example, all of these “equally likely to have used drugs” claims turn out to be that blacks and whites are equally likely to have “used drugs in the past year”, but blacks are far more likely to have used drugs in the past week – that is, more whites are only occasional users. That gives blacks many more opportunities to be caught by the cops. Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Further, blacks are more likely to live in the cities, where there is a heavy police shadow, and whites in the suburbs or country, where there is a lower one. ... >Finally, all of this is based on self-reported data about drug use. Remember from a couple paragraphs ago how studies showed that black people were twice as likely to fail to self-report their drug use? And you notice here that black people are twice as likely to be arrested for drug use as their self-reports suggest? That’s certainly an interesting coincidence.

imgabe 11y ago
> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine This raises a question about why drugs that whites are more likely to use are penalized less severely than drugs that blacks are more likely to use.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  He discusses this in the summary. >It would be nice to say that this shows the criminal justice system is not disproportionately harming blacks, but unfortunately it doesn’t come anywhere close to showing anything of the sort. There are still many ways it can indirectly harm blacks without being explicitly racist. Anatole France famously said that “the law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich as well as poor people from begging for bread and sleeping under bridges”, and in the same way that the laws France cites, be they enforced ever so fairly, would still disproportionately target poor people, so other laws can, even when fairly enforced, target black people. The classic example of this is crack cocaine – a predominantly black drug – carrying a higher sentence than other whiter drugs. Even if the police are scrupulously fair in giving the same sentence to black and white cokeheads, the law will still have a disproportionate effect. But note that this supports very different conclusions from what you'd think only knowing that blacks have higher penalty rates. Is it racist laws, or racist policemen? The response to each is going to be different; e.g. giving policemen "diversity training" or something only helps if they were the problem.
pflats 11y ago
> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Why is it, then, that crack cocaine is a high-penalty drug, and hallucinogens are low-penalty drugs? (I leave this as an exercise to the reader.)
- ikeboy 11y ago
  He mentions this in the summary. Note that this still doesn't support kennywinker's claim that "profiling and racist policing directly leads to economic exclusion". If anything, higher usage, combined with several other factors, possibly including racist laws (but not racist enforcement of those laws), led to this.
- gluelogic 11y ago
  Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix.
  - chimeracoder 11y ago
    > Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix. Powder cocaine is literally the same drug as crack cocaine, yet the sentencing disparities since the 1980s have been completely out of sync. They've slightly converged in the last ~5 years (crack cocaine sentences have been reduced), but let's not pretend that the sentencing laws[0] have not been radically influenced by perceptions of associations of drugs with race. > People aren't out robbing houses to get their next _____ fix LSD is not physically addictive, but in general, I'll encourage you to question this line of thinking. Looking at whether people are "out robbing houses" glosses over the question of why people would commit robbery in order to purchase drugs, and the racial and socioeconomic issues that are inextricably linked to that. Put another way: who's not committing robbery in order to purchase the drugs that they use, and why aren't they? Is it because their drug (e.g. powdered cocaine) is fundamentally less addictive? Or is it because they are already in a position in society that allows them other opportunities to finance their drug use? Is it a statement about the drug itself, or simply a statement about the social structures that already exist? [0] If you want a really wonderful example of this, look at the reason that possession of <27g of marijuana was the only drug that was exempted from the Rockefeller drug laws' mandatory minimum sentencing. It was, quite literally, that kids in predominantly white and wealthy suburbs were being sentenced to prison time, and the parents wanted the judges to have discretionary power when sentencing them.
WesternStar 11y ago
In this article they attempt to list area stopped and income as factors unrelated to race that should be controlled for. Do you think that's reasonable? Do those things have nothing to do with race in your world?
- ikeboy 11y ago
  The paragraph immediately after discusses whether they should be controlled for, and provides further evidence.

by ikeboy 11y ago

imgabe 11y ago

> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine This raises a question about why drugs that whites are more likely to use are penalized less severely than drugs that blacks are more likely to use.

ikeboy 11y ago
He discusses this in the summary. >It would be nice to say that this shows the criminal justice system is not disproportionately harming blacks, but unfortunately it doesn’t come anywhere close to showing anything of the sort. There are still many ways it can indirectly harm blacks without being explicitly racist. Anatole France famously said that “the law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich as well as poor people from begging for bread and sleeping under bridges”, and in the same way that the laws France cites, be they enforced ever so fairly, would still disproportionately target poor people, so other laws can, even when fairly enforced, target black people. The classic example of this is crack cocaine – a predominantly black drug – carrying a higher sentence than other whiter drugs. Even if the police are scrupulously fair in giving the same sentence to black and white cokeheads, the law will still have a disproportionate effect. But note that this supports very different conclusions from what you'd think only knowing that blacks have higher penalty rates. Is it racist laws, or racist policemen? The response to each is going to be different; e.g. giving policemen "diversity training" or something only helps if they were the problem.

pflats 11y ago

> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Why is it, then, that crack cocaine is a high-penalty drug, and hallucinogens are low-penalty drugs? (I leave this as an exercise to the reader.)

ikeboy 11y ago
He mentions this in the summary. Note that this still doesn't support kennywinker's claim that "profiling and racist policing directly leads to economic exclusion". If anything, higher usage, combined with several other factors, possibly including racist laws (but not racist enforcement of those laws), led to this.
gluelogic 11y ago
Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix. Powder cocaine is literally the same drug as crack cocaine, yet the sentencing disparities since the 1980s have been completely out of sync. They've slightly converged in the last ~5 years (crack cocaine sentences have been reduced), but let's not pretend that the sentencing laws[0] have not been radically influenced by perceptions of associations of drugs with race. > People aren't out robbing houses to get their next _____ fix LSD is not physically addictive, but in general, I'll encourage you to question this line of thinking. Looking at whether people are "out robbing houses" glosses over the question of why people would commit robbery in order to purchase drugs, and the racial and socioeconomic issues that are inextricably linked to that. Put another way: who's not committing robbery in order to purchase the drugs that they use, and why aren't they? Is it because their drug (e.g. powdered cocaine) is fundamentally less addictive? Or is it because they are already in a position in society that allows them other opportunities to finance their drug use? Is it a statement about the drug itself, or simply a statement about the social structures that already exist? [0] If you want a really wonderful example of this, look at the reason that possession of <27g of marijuana was the only drug that was exempted from the Rockefeller drug laws' mandatory minimum sentencing. It was, quite literally, that kids in predominantly white and wealthy suburbs were being sentenced to prison time, and the parents wanted the judges to have discretionary power when sentencing them.

WesternStar 11y ago

In this article they attempt to list area stopped and income as factors unrelated to race that should be controlled for. Do you think that's reasonable? Do those things have nothing to do with race in your world?

ikeboy 11y ago
The paragraph immediately after discusses whether they should be controlled for, and provides further evidence.