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Yes, the author seems remarkably conflicted over UBI, I'm not sure he entirely understands what it entails. This is aptly demonstrated by his final paragraph wh

by adwf 11y ago

Yes, the author seems remarkably conflicted over UBI, I'm not sure he entirely understands what it entails. This is aptly demonstrated by his final paragraph where he asks the reader how we can redistribute the wealth from successful companies. Um, universal basic income? It is fundamentally redistributive. How does he think it's going to get funded? It's going to need 60-70% tax rates across the board.

anonymousDan 11y ago
If my reading is correct I think you missed his point. His claim is that most people wouldn't want to be placated with UBI in return for being denied an opportunity to earn their own way because all wealth creation capabilities are concentrated in the hands of the 'Silicon Valley elite'.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  Which is an insanely single-minded view. Wealth is created in all sorts of ways. Culture can never be automated. Fashion is never finished. Food is never finished. Movies, music, art, dance, they are always in a state of transition from one trend to the next. And they make tons of cash.
- adwf 11y ago
  Oh I agree with that a little, but that's another misunderstanding on his part. Basic income is meant as a minimum upon which you then build your own career. It's not really meant as welfare for the unemployed, that's just an added bonus. Instead of working a crappy job that you hate, you can afford to find a job that you love, even if it's lower pay. eg. If you're working for 15k units of money at a job you hate, under basic income you could keep on earning 15k + say 10k of UBI for total 25k. Or you could switch to 10k UBI + 5k salary at a job you love. The beauty of that system is that currently there are a whole class of jobs that really struggle to exist (like music/arts/etc.), because no-one can afford to work for only 5k a year. It also has an added benefit of improving those terrible jobs in the first place, as no boss can abuse his staff without them walking out (no unions needed!).
  - Domenic_S 11y ago
    > eg. If you're working for 15k units of money... Sure, but wouldn't price increases effectively divide the equation by 15k? I find it intuitively difficult to believe that if walmart cashiers suddenly got an extra 15k money units the price of toilet paper (and every other basic essential) wouldn't increase by some factor, effectively neutralizing UBI. UBI sets a floor, and we conveniently already have a floor today - disability + food stamps + unemployment + whatever else you qualify for.
    - adwf 11y ago
      While that's possible, it's actually far more likely that the 15k job will over time plummet to only 5k as employers will still be squeezing unskilled workers as always. So no inflation. The difference is that because as you say, it sets a floor, you can now switch to that 5k job that you actually love; there's only so much they can squeeze before you pack it in. It's still of benefit to the worker. Note: The main idea of the universal part of basic income is that it is far cheaper to run than disability/food stamps/unemployment/etc. For every penny we spend on "qualified" handouts, we spend twice that in verifying the handout in the first place.
      - Domenic_S 11y ago
        I don't really disagree with any of this except for the "5k job that you actually love" bit. I really don't think that's likely to happen for most people. I would argue that nearly all of those "love" jobs' salaries are already low-paid because so many people want to do them (any job in media, writing, music, gaming, etc), or there's just no money there (charities, most work with animals & the disenfranchised, etc). The massive influx of people who can now follow their passion drives the $5k wage down to $0, and what's worse, there literally aren't any seats for people who would even do it for free. And the whole thing falls apart. I'm trying to imagine what the world would look like if everyone who had a wild hair to be a professional musician or writer went ahead and did it. Good? Bad? I don't know. Interesting for sure though.
        11y ago
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  The reason many people in SV are in a position to create wealth is because they broke their brains studying to be able to understand complex things. Given the state of online education today, if we have a UBI anyone with the willpower and a normally functioning mind can achieve this. No one is being denied anything with a UBI. It is the ultimate freedom.

by adwf 11y ago

anonymousDan 11y ago

If my reading is correct I think you missed his point. His claim is that most people wouldn't want to be placated with UBI in return for being denied an opportunity to earn their own way because all wealth creation capabilities are concentrated in the hands of the 'Silicon Valley elite'.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
Which is an insanely single-minded view. Wealth is created in all sorts of ways. Culture can never be automated. Fashion is never finished. Food is never finished. Movies, music, art, dance, they are always in a state of transition from one trend to the next. And they make tons of cash.
adwf 11y ago
Oh I agree with that a little, but that's another misunderstanding on his part. Basic income is meant as a minimum upon which you then build your own career. It's not really meant as welfare for the unemployed, that's just an added bonus. Instead of working a crappy job that you hate, you can afford to find a job that you love, even if it's lower pay. eg. If you're working for 15k units of money at a job you hate, under basic income you could keep on earning 15k + say 10k of UBI for total 25k. Or you could switch to 10k UBI + 5k salary at a job you love. The beauty of that system is that currently there are a whole class of jobs that really struggle to exist (like music/arts/etc.), because no-one can afford to work for only 5k a year. It also has an added benefit of improving those terrible jobs in the first place, as no boss can abuse his staff without them walking out (no unions needed!).
- Domenic_S 11y ago
  > eg. If you're working for 15k units of money... Sure, but wouldn't price increases effectively divide the equation by 15k? I find it intuitively difficult to believe that if walmart cashiers suddenly got an extra 15k money units the price of toilet paper (and every other basic essential) wouldn't increase by some factor, effectively neutralizing UBI. UBI sets a floor, and we conveniently already have a floor today - disability + food stamps + unemployment + whatever else you qualify for.
  - adwf 11y ago
    While that's possible, it's actually far more likely that the 15k job will over time plummet to only 5k as employers will still be squeezing unskilled workers as always. So no inflation. The difference is that because as you say, it sets a floor, you can now switch to that 5k job that you actually love; there's only so much they can squeeze before you pack it in. It's still of benefit to the worker. Note: The main idea of the universal part of basic income is that it is far cheaper to run than disability/food stamps/unemployment/etc. For every penny we spend on "qualified" handouts, we spend twice that in verifying the handout in the first place.
    - Domenic_S 11y ago
      I don't really disagree with any of this except for the "5k job that you actually love" bit. I really don't think that's likely to happen for most people. I would argue that nearly all of those "love" jobs' salaries are already low-paid because so many people want to do them (any job in media, writing, music, gaming, etc), or there's just no money there (charities, most work with animals & the disenfranchised, etc). The massive influx of people who can now follow their passion drives the $5k wage down to $0, and what's worse, there literally aren't any seats for people who would even do it for free. And the whole thing falls apart. I'm trying to imagine what the world would look like if everyone who had a wild hair to be a professional musician or writer went ahead and did it. Good? Bad? I don't know. Interesting for sure though.
      - 11y ago
rorykoehler 11y ago
The reason many people in SV are in a position to create wealth is because they broke their brains studying to be able to understand complex things. Given the state of online education today, if we have a UBI anyone with the willpower and a normally functioning mind can achieve this. No one is being denied anything with a UBI. It is the ultimate freedom.