4 ms·

Google translate... We have the technology, just not the sense to use it :-(

by sbarker 11y ago

baldfat 11y ago
> just not the sense to use it :-( A) I know 3 ancient languages and have degrees in them undergrad and grad. Google Translate German is minimally okay at best. The most important aspects of languages are not words but sentence structure. That is lost on Google Translation BUT... what I can see is this guy is just raging about a missing dependency in the repos of a library last built in 2010 (5 years old). NOT AN RPM ISSUE. 2) Oh and who the RPM file format has since devised please ?! What's that supposed to be? If the alien invaders drive you crazy, so they can not exterminate mankind? Holy shit. By contrast, even the Debian stuff is obvious and self-explanatory! And self-documenting all. As a .deb works, one can find out with file and home remedies, you do not even need a hex editor." C) This guy is clueless he says Gnome handles this better then RPM? What does a Desktop Environment have to do with RPM? Does he equate Gnome with Debian/Ubuntu and thinks Gnome is Deb? "Does "deltarpm". Say, is that a joke here? Even Rotz Gnome checked before building if its dependencies are fulfilled!" D) The guy saying the standard has different versions? It was the official standard of the Linux Foundation. http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/lsb.shtml http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/lsb.shtml "First there are RPM directly two strands, RPM and RPM 4 5, and both claim to be the "official" RPM. Lolwut?" E) Why would anyone need a hex editor for when looking at RPM its plain text? If you can't find anything on the issue in several languages it isn't an issue. RPM is a stable good technology that people randomly out of what need to put down without knowingly what they are talking about. Enough said about this stupid blog post: "My goodness. And I know otherwise perfectly sane people who swear on CentOS! Update: Maybe I should say, as I so imagine a package management tool. My request would be that always works. Python zerschossen? Perl is not installed? glibc update failed in the middle? The package manager needs to go and can still be saved. And it must be small enough to fit with metadata in 5 MB. Must also without OpenSSL and curl and wget can work, at least in an emergency. Of the systems that I've seen so far, I like best pacman (Arch Linux). But there is something else."
- baldfat 11y ago
  Sure down vote BUT defend your opposition to the point of this blog post that I pointed out. It is 100% not RPM issues that this person is talking about. Okay so by the down votes I guess people prefer to think RPM is bad and won't take anything from anyone pointing out how it works and that the article used was full of holes by someone that doesn't understand package management. I SAID STUPID: Ye sit is stupid to request a package manager that uses unsecured packages with disabled SSL and curl and wget to download packages and manage them so that any hacker could install any package it wants with a simple script.
  - JdeBP 11y ago
    "this guy" and "this person" with the "stupid blog post" is Felix von Leitner, for reference. Understand that, and understand things like diet libc, libowfat, and minit, and you will understand some of the bases of M. von Leitner's opinions here. * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner
    - creshal 11y ago
      https://twitter.com/JohnLaTwC/status/708309799738314752 https://twitter.com/JohnLaTwC/status/708309799738314752
  - creshal 11y ago
    > Ye sit is stupid to request a package manager that uses unsecured packages with disabled SSL and curl and wget to download packages and manage them so that any hacker could install any package it wants with a simple script. That was not the demand. The demand was a package manager that works without requiring openssl as a dynamically linked dependency, so the package manager still works if those dependencies are broken or missing (due to e.g. a botched update) and can repair dynamic libraries for the rest of the system.
- groovy2shoes 11y ago
  In all fairness, RPM really is a shitty package format [0]. It's a binary format with a lot of different versions, and any tool dealing with RPMs needs to be able to handle all those different versions. Compare that with nearly every other package format: a standard archive file with the package data and metadata stored within. This means that you need specialized tools to deal with RPM packages, whereas packages in other formats can be dealt with using standard archival and compression tools. The situation could be a lot worse, for sure, but dealing with RPM packages is a pain in the ass compared to practically every other package format (programmatically speaking). (I say this as the maintainer of a tool that converts RPMs to CRUX packages [1]). [0]: http://rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-file-format-rpm-file-format.html http://rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-file-format-rpm-file-format.ht... [1]: https://github.com/baguette/crux-ports/blob/master/rpm2pkg/rpm2pkg https://github.com/baguette/crux-ports/blob/master/rpm2pkg/r...

Google translate... We have the technology, just not the sense to use it :-(

by sbarker 11y ago

Google translate... We have the technology, just not the sense to use it :-(

> just not the sense to use it :-( A) I know 3 ancient languages and have degrees in them undergrad and grad. Google Translate German is minimally okay at best. The most important aspects of languages are not words but sentence structure. That is lost on Google Translation BUT... what I can see is this guy is just raging about a missing dependency in the repos of a library last built in 2010 (5 years old). NOT AN RPM ISSUE. 2) Oh and who the RPM file format has since devised please ?! What's that supposed to be? If the alien invaders drive you crazy, so they can not exterminate mankind? Holy shit. By contrast, even the Debian stuff is obvious and self-explanatory! And self-documenting all. As a .deb works, one can find out with file and home remedies, you do not even need a hex editor." C) This guy is clueless he says Gnome handles this better then RPM? What does a Desktop Environment have to do with RPM? Does he equate Gnome with Debian/Ubuntu and thinks Gnome is Deb? "Does "deltarpm". Say, is that a joke here? Even Rotz Gnome checked before building if its dependencies are fulfilled!" D) The guy saying the standard has different versions? It was the official standard of the Linux Foundation. http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/lsb.shtml http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/lsb.shtml "First there are RPM directly two strands, RPM and RPM 4 5, and both claim to be the "official" RPM. Lolwut?" E) Why would anyone need a hex editor for when looking at RPM its plain text? If you can't find anything on the issue in several languages it isn't an issue. RPM is a stable good technology that people randomly out of what need to put down without knowingly what they are talking about. Enough said about this stupid blog post: "My goodness. And I know otherwise perfectly sane people who swear on CentOS! Update: Maybe I should say, as I so imagine a package management tool. My request would be that always works. Python zerschossen? Perl is not installed? glibc update failed in the middle? The package manager needs to go and can still be saved. And it must be small enough to fit with metadata in 5 MB. Must also without OpenSSL and curl and wget can work, at least in an emergency. Of the systems that I've seen so far, I like best pacman (Arch Linux). But there is something else."

baldfat 11y ago
Sure down vote BUT defend your opposition to the point of this blog post that I pointed out. It is 100% not RPM issues that this person is talking about. Okay so by the down votes I guess people prefer to think RPM is bad and won't take anything from anyone pointing out how it works and that the article used was full of holes by someone that doesn't understand package management. I SAID STUPID: Ye sit is stupid to request a package manager that uses unsecured packages with disabled SSL and curl and wget to download packages and manage them so that any hacker could install any package it wants with a simple script.
- JdeBP 11y ago
  "this guy" and "this person" with the "stupid blog post" is Felix von Leitner, for reference. Understand that, and understand things like diet libc, libowfat, and minit, and you will understand some of the bases of M. von Leitner's opinions here. * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner
  - creshal 11y ago
    https://twitter.com/JohnLaTwC/status/708309799738314752 https://twitter.com/JohnLaTwC/status/708309799738314752
- creshal 11y ago
  > Ye sit is stupid to request a package manager that uses unsecured packages with disabled SSL and curl and wget to download packages and manage them so that any hacker could install any package it wants with a simple script. That was not the demand. The demand was a package manager that works without requiring openssl as a dynamically linked dependency, so the package manager still works if those dependencies are broken or missing (due to e.g. a botched update) and can repair dynamic libraries for the rest of the system.
groovy2shoes 11y ago
In all fairness, RPM really is a shitty package format [0]. It's a binary format with a lot of different versions, and any tool dealing with RPMs needs to be able to handle all those different versions. Compare that with nearly every other package format: a standard archive file with the package data and metadata stored within. This means that you need specialized tools to deal with RPM packages, whereas packages in other formats can be dealt with using standard archival and compression tools. The situation could be a lot worse, for sure, but dealing with RPM packages is a pain in the ass compared to practically every other package format (programmatically speaking). (I say this as the maintainer of a tool that converts RPMs to CRUX packages [1]). [0]: http://rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-file-format-rpm-file-format.html http://rpm.org/max-rpm/s1-rpm-file-format-rpm-file-format.ht... [1]: https://github.com/baguette/crux-ports/blob/master/rpm2pkg/rpm2pkg https://github.com/baguette/crux-ports/blob/master/rpm2pkg/r...