4 ms·

What you're saying is correct for short term. I guess my point is that F35 service life is not goint to be four decades long, as it was for F16. It's too optim

by vlehto 11y ago

What you're saying is correct for short term. I guess my point is that F35 service life is not goint to be four decades long, as it was for F16. It's too optimized for current threat enviroment, which is likely to change a lot in just few decades. Unless China implodes, gas prices remain very low for Russia for several decades in a row. And India suddenly remembers how Mahatma Gandhi was a great guy.

dogma1138 11y ago
The F35 can also evolve, an F16 block 16/25 is quite a different beast from a modern Block 52/52+ one. Heck if the F15 gets it's SE variant you could potentially extend it's life for 3 or more decades, and even without it it's probably good for another 20 years or so as it doesn't look like anyone is building a strike fighter with similar payload delivery capabilities and speed. Heck if the US can find use for it's B52 fleet till ~2050 (which will make it the first aircraft to serve for a whole century) they could probably find a use for an F35. Heck convert them all to drone and use them as expandable weapon delivery platforms you are unlikely to see much dog fighting in 2030.
- vlehto 11y ago
  Yes you can use it. But F16 was still credible aerial superiority fighter against everybody in 2005. Mostly because of collapse of Soviet union, as there was a decade of low intensity R&D with everything except F-22. Now with latest SAM missiles and long range air-to-air missiles being slowly adopted by everybody, stealth is the only way to go. If you wish to control airspace with impunity. Lot less is required just to defend your own with credibility. My guess is that F35 is going to see new more stealthy radar, new all aspect IRST, new RAM coatings better optimized against IR emission. Some engine tweaks are going to happen to later models. Then at some point (decided by everybody else) it comes obvious that F35 is going to run into some other stealth aircraft and get mutual kill. Some active protection system adopted from tanks, but no matter how successful that is, some startstreak type "I'll throw tungsten rods at you as soon as I detect that shotgun blast". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_(missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_(missile) Missiles already travel at speed of mach 3, which is same that autocannon shells. Maybe you could also (finally) get some use for metal storm concept, and implement five round burst cannon inside AA missile. (That kind of cannon can get significant weight reduction once you don't need to worry about fatigue and safety factors to keep close by personnel safe.) The final nail in the coffin is engines. F35 engines have very good thrust/weigh, but they have poor fuel economy. This allows big weapons load for quick short mission. But if we accept that you can't after-burn, you don't need to turn that fast, and you won't survive to shoot more than 4 missiles etc, then your top priority is low fuel usage, long loiter and long range. Back to the missileer concept. The problem with F22 and F35 is exactly their success. They are the first prototypes of the stealth/missile age. I'm expecting bit similar situation than with first swept wing afterburning planes. Those things got outdated in a decade. But if China implodes, then everything slows down.

by vlehto 11y ago

dogma1138 11y ago

The F35 can also evolve, an F16 block 16/25 is quite a different beast from a modern Block 52/52+ one. Heck if the F15 gets it's SE variant you could potentially extend it's life for 3 or more decades, and even without it it's probably good for another 20 years or so as it doesn't look like anyone is building a strike fighter with similar payload delivery capabilities and speed. Heck if the US can find use for it's B52 fleet till ~2050 (which will make it the first aircraft to serve for a whole century) they could probably find a use for an F35. Heck convert them all to drone and use them as expandable weapon delivery platforms you are unlikely to see much dog fighting in 2030.

vlehto 11y ago
Yes you can use it. But F16 was still credible aerial superiority fighter against everybody in 2005. Mostly because of collapse of Soviet union, as there was a decade of low intensity R&D with everything except F-22. Now with latest SAM missiles and long range air-to-air missiles being slowly adopted by everybody, stealth is the only way to go. If you wish to control airspace with impunity. Lot less is required just to defend your own with credibility. My guess is that F35 is going to see new more stealthy radar, new all aspect IRST, new RAM coatings better optimized against IR emission. Some engine tweaks are going to happen to later models. Then at some point (decided by everybody else) it comes obvious that F35 is going to run into some other stealth aircraft and get mutual kill. Some active protection system adopted from tanks, but no matter how successful that is, some startstreak type "I'll throw tungsten rods at you as soon as I detect that shotgun blast". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_(missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_(missile) Missiles already travel at speed of mach 3, which is same that autocannon shells. Maybe you could also (finally) get some use for metal storm concept, and implement five round burst cannon inside AA missile. (That kind of cannon can get significant weight reduction once you don't need to worry about fatigue and safety factors to keep close by personnel safe.) The final nail in the coffin is engines. F35 engines have very good thrust/weigh, but they have poor fuel economy. This allows big weapons load for quick short mission. But if we accept that you can't after-burn, you don't need to turn that fast, and you won't survive to shoot more than 4 missiles etc, then your top priority is low fuel usage, long loiter and long range. Back to the missileer concept. The problem with F22 and F35 is exactly their success. They are the first prototypes of the stealth/missile age. I'm expecting bit similar situation than with first swept wing afterburning planes. Those things got outdated in a decade. But if China implodes, then everything slows down.