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I would say all 10 are clearly capitalist. All have strong recognition of property rights including private property in the means of production. It is unfortun

I would say all 10 are clearly capitalist. All have strong recognition of property rights including private property in the means of production. It is unfortunate that political terminology is muddy enough to allow for this sort of confusion. If I think these 10 countries are capitalist and you think 8 of them are socialist, what is the likelihood of us having a useful conversation discussing capitalism and socialism?

noir_lord 11y ago
Socialism doesn't preclude capitalism, it just harnesses for a different goal.
- mattchew 11y ago
  Perhaps your idea of socialism, but not many others' ideas. That's the problem. A lot of people who cheer for socialism believe capitalism, in the sense of private property in the means of production, is a problem and should be abolished. Others, like yourself, are advocating fundamentally capitalist states with extensive welfare programs like Denmark or Sweden. Unfortunately, the word socialism is used in both senses quite commonly, and it isn't always easy to tell the intent from the word. (Also, I think sometimes the advocates of socialism aren't very clear on what they mean themselves. Which is unfortunate, as the difference between the two meanings is enormous.) To be fair, it isn't just fans of socialism who perpetuate this. It does not help when right wingers insist on calling Obama a socialist. Since the fraction of internet socialists who would actually like to try Marxist totalitarianism one more time is fairly sizable, I tend to assume the worst when I see people choosing that word for themselves. I will say, if you care about distancing yourself from the totalitarian socialists, but you still like the sound of "socialism", making sure to describe yourself a "democratic socialist" does get the idea across. It's not my favorite term but at least it does suggest Sweden rather than Maoist China.
- nickik 11y ago
  You can not change the definition of words to suit your idiological needs. Inform yourself about what words mean before going into a politcal discussion. Their are some words that have many meanings, when you want to use those, you should provide the appropirate addition to communicat your idea.

noir_lord 11y ago

Socialism doesn't preclude capitalism, it just harnesses for a different goal.

mattchew 11y ago
Perhaps your idea of socialism, but not many others' ideas. That's the problem. A lot of people who cheer for socialism believe capitalism, in the sense of private property in the means of production, is a problem and should be abolished. Others, like yourself, are advocating fundamentally capitalist states with extensive welfare programs like Denmark or Sweden. Unfortunately, the word socialism is used in both senses quite commonly, and it isn't always easy to tell the intent from the word. (Also, I think sometimes the advocates of socialism aren't very clear on what they mean themselves. Which is unfortunate, as the difference between the two meanings is enormous.) To be fair, it isn't just fans of socialism who perpetuate this. It does not help when right wingers insist on calling Obama a socialist. Since the fraction of internet socialists who would actually like to try Marxist totalitarianism one more time is fairly sizable, I tend to assume the worst when I see people choosing that word for themselves. I will say, if you care about distancing yourself from the totalitarian socialists, but you still like the sound of "socialism", making sure to describe yourself a "democratic socialist" does get the idea across. It's not my favorite term but at least it does suggest Sweden rather than Maoist China.
nickik 11y ago
You can not change the definition of words to suit your idiological needs. Inform yourself about what words mean before going into a politcal discussion. Their are some words that have many meanings, when you want to use those, you should provide the appropirate addition to communicat your idea.