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The Nazi Party, even though it has "socialism" and "workers" in its title, is not considered to be a form of Socialism (nor, for that matter, to be pro workers)

The Nazi Party, even though it has "socialism" and "workers" in its title, is not considered to be a form of Socialism (nor, for that matter, to be pro workers) I hate getting down in the weeds on this, but its "not considered socialism" by those on the left who are embarrassed that the Nazis were pretty much a command economy and have socialism in its name.

the_af 11y ago
I don't think Nazism is considered a form of Socialism by pretty much any reputable source; only some in the anti-Left fringe do. A planned economy alone is not enough to classify a system as socialist, and anyway Nazism had enough elements of private property and corporatism. The Nazis, like in many other aspects, were equivocating by calling themselves socialists -- not that they particularly liked the term themselves very much. I wouldn't pay much attention to the name of the Nazi Party, either. After all, North Korea is a "democratic" republic, it says so right in their name!
- orblivion 11y ago
  So if a command economy isn't enough, perhaps it has to actually represent a form of community control, do you believe the USSR was any more socialist? What makes something actually socialist? The understanding I've developed of socialism is of worker ownership of the means of production. The state at best can only claim to somehow speak for the workers in a top down manner, and I think that inevitably fails. (Which is not to say I'm advocating it here in a decentralized form but I'm much more sympathetic)
happycube 11y ago
I figure it's akin to North Korea being "Democratic" - it's in the name right? ;)
- jensen123 11y ago
  That communist countries often call themselves democratic is not really that strange. Democracy comes from the Greek words demos, which means people, and kratos, while means power or rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy As you probably know, communism usually starts out as a mass-movement of ordinary people.
marcoperaza 11y ago
Frederick Hayek makes this argument in his famous book, The Road To Serfdom. Fascism isn't the capitalist response to socialism, it's the right-wing version of socialism. In Germany, it only came about because socialism had wiped out [classical] liberalism. I don't think Trump is a murderous totalitarian (though I guess he could be), but fascism is actually an accurate label for his political ideas. He doesn't have a problem with state authority, he just thinks he could do it better, and would encourage nationalist social upheaval instead of SJW social upheaval. This is why the conservative movement hates him.

the_af 11y ago

I don't think Nazism is considered a form of Socialism by pretty much any reputable source; only some in the anti-Left fringe do. A planned economy alone is not enough to classify a system as socialist, and anyway Nazism had enough elements of private property and corporatism. The Nazis, like in many other aspects, were equivocating by calling themselves socialists -- not that they particularly liked the term themselves very much. I wouldn't pay much attention to the name of the Nazi Party, either. After all, North Korea is a "democratic" republic, it says so right in their name!

orblivion 11y ago
So if a command economy isn't enough, perhaps it has to actually represent a form of community control, do you believe the USSR was any more socialist? What makes something actually socialist? The understanding I've developed of socialism is of worker ownership of the means of production. The state at best can only claim to somehow speak for the workers in a top down manner, and I think that inevitably fails. (Which is not to say I'm advocating it here in a decentralized form but I'm much more sympathetic)

happycube 11y ago

I figure it's akin to North Korea being "Democratic" - it's in the name right? ;)

jensen123 11y ago
That communist countries often call themselves democratic is not really that strange. Democracy comes from the Greek words demos, which means people, and kratos, while means power or rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy As you probably know, communism usually starts out as a mass-movement of ordinary people.

marcoperaza 11y ago

Frederick Hayek makes this argument in his famous book, The Road To Serfdom. Fascism isn't the capitalist response to socialism, it's the right-wing version of socialism. In Germany, it only came about because socialism had wiped out [classical] liberalism. I don't think Trump is a murderous totalitarian (though I guess he could be), but fascism is actually an accurate label for his political ideas. He doesn't have a problem with state authority, he just thinks he could do it better, and would encourage nationalist social upheaval instead of SJW social upheaval. This is why the conservative movement hates him.