4 ms·

Public universities (and private universities with some public missions like mit) are becoming more like private corporations, for the benefit of the administra

Public universities (and private universities with some public missions like mit) are becoming more like private corporations, for the benefit of the administrators first. International students pay more. Edit: I am not generalizing to all international chinese students, nor do I know how uncommon or common my perspective is, but this is what I experienced among undergrad and graduate international chinese students where I was studying in the US. More importantly, universities should not be allowing this sort of behavior in the first place. I'm surprised that this article didn't bother to present anyone else's perspective (the other students, more faculty, people who live near college campuses. More than discord, I bore witness to many international Chinese students instances demonstrating a lack of basic morals. Rude to waiters, aggressively driving around pedestrains, not bothering to pick up trash, no qualms about abusing or destroying resources or cleaning up after themselves. Pushing people off sidewalks. Cheating on tests, homework, sneering and trying to bullshit their way out of it. Large cheating rings. I've seen so much shit from international chinese students, not kicking them out or punishing them for what they did negatively impacted everyone's college experience, and will continue to dilute the reputation of my degree.

ken47 11y ago
I wish I could downvote this blatant racism.
- elevenfist 11y ago
  Well, perhaps I should make it clear that this was how the vast majority of international chinese undergraduate and graduate students I encountered behaved. I have a few friends who were kinder, but I'd argue it's a cultural difference where those that I encountered valued human life and fairness far less than I ever expected.
aidenn0 11y ago
Maybe American students have gotten better since I attended college, but when I was there I saw American students do all of those things.
- elevenfist 11y ago
  I steered clear of the greek sustem, you may be right, although I thought my university started kicking out fraternities that wouldn't abide by the moral code.
  - aidenn0 11y ago
    Again, it wasn't limited to the greek system (in fact the greek system had more accountability than most which prevented certain behaviors, but not others).
elevenfist 11y ago
Edit window has expired, so I will say this I do not, and never will, simply assume something about someone. My goal was to present a different perspective than the article which could be misinterpreted to view international chinese students as victims, and to provide a different opinion on their impact on college campuses. Cheating caused all sorts of issues, especially when it went unpunished.
- huac 11y ago
  I want to note a similar sentiment, esp. with my above comment. I'm totally in favor of allowing (and encouraging) international students to come to American universities. But I also think international students can be victims if they don't have the language skills to engage with the rest of the school. At least with Chinese students, many come to America because they can't get into good Chinese universities but are still rich. I think students who spend 4 years drifting in a school, not making friends outside of other rich international students, and not engaging with professors or courses, are seriously disserved by the university. Imagine doing 4 years of college in, say, France, without speaking the language - how much could you have benefited vs attending a school in your home country?
  - elevenfist 11y ago
    As a counterpoint, many of the international students I encountered weren't particularly interested in interacting with students from other backgrounds, or even particularly curious about America. I do remember one student who may have fit the above description in undergrad. He had a heavy accent, (but that's never been a problem with me, most accents are pretty consistent and you can adapt quickly) wasn't doing too well with his studies. He was difficult to engage with in general. However, I was fairly sure he was enjoying the party life when he wasn't in class, and he wasn't interested in interacting with me, or from what I saw, anyone who wasn't from the same background.
ams6110 11y ago
I see this a lot though from my perspective it's more a trait of very wealthy kids than just the Chinese. Wealthy Indian students as well as Americans generally act like entitled assholes (not always, but more often than the typical student). I think it's a symptom of a life of privilege, probably having servants to do anything menial and not used to not getting what they want at all times.
elevenfist 11y ago
The second part of my comment was in fact racist, and I apologize. Thinking back to the effect rampant cheating and stealing had on my university class, it could've been started by anyone. As others have pointed out, there are people from all cultures, (including American students) who behave in this way. Some people point to wealth as a predictor, and my own experiences would suggest a correlation, but there are plenty of people from all walks of life who will burn everything down for so little.
nikdaheratik 11y ago
To be fair, more and more state legislatures have been treating Public universities like private corporations when it comes to ponying up the money come budget time. It's not like this is coming from nowhere.
cr1895 11y ago
To counter your rather tasteless and problematic description of Chinese students with my own anecdote: During my MSc I studied alongside numerous Chinese people (some of whom are now my work colleagues), all of whom exhibited none of the antisocial characteristics you describe. I also witnessed and heard of the racist things people sometimes said to them (cartoonish ni haos, dog-eating comments, etc). Those were gross and so is your description. Really, students from China will dilute the reputation of your degree?!
- Chris2048 11y ago
  Why tasteless and problematic? Do you think it's biased/untrue? Racial slurs ("dog eating") and observed behavior (littering) are very different things. > Really, students from China will dilute the reputation of your degree?! full context: > not kicking them out or punishing them for what they did negatively impacted everyone's college experience, and will continue to dilute the reputation of my degree.
- Dr_tldr 11y ago
  Your selective and inaccurate editing of the host comment is dishonest,and the emotionally charged adjectives you use make it sound like you're more interested in virtue signaling than having a discussion. The mistake you're making is that you think one anecdote cancels out another and makes it invalid. Both anecdotal experiences are probably true. Anyone urging us to reject one recounted experience as "gross" and "problematic" is in favor of shutting out information that might be accurate but doesn't fit a preconceived agenda. In other words, not just a liar, but someone actively pressuring others to deny their own experiences. I can't think of a worse person than that, no matter what worthy cause they think it's in the service of.

ken47 11y ago

I wish I could downvote this blatant racism.

elevenfist 11y ago
Well, perhaps I should make it clear that this was how the vast majority of international chinese undergraduate and graduate students I encountered behaved. I have a few friends who were kinder, but I'd argue it's a cultural difference where those that I encountered valued human life and fairness far less than I ever expected.

aidenn0 11y ago

Maybe American students have gotten better since I attended college, but when I was there I saw American students do all of those things.

elevenfist 11y ago
I steered clear of the greek sustem, you may be right, although I thought my university started kicking out fraternities that wouldn't abide by the moral code.
- aidenn0 11y ago
  Again, it wasn't limited to the greek system (in fact the greek system had more accountability than most which prevented certain behaviors, but not others).

elevenfist 11y ago

Edit window has expired, so I will say this I do not, and never will, simply assume something about someone. My goal was to present a different perspective than the article which could be misinterpreted to view international chinese students as victims, and to provide a different opinion on their impact on college campuses. Cheating caused all sorts of issues, especially when it went unpunished.

huac 11y ago
I want to note a similar sentiment, esp. with my above comment. I'm totally in favor of allowing (and encouraging) international students to come to American universities. But I also think international students can be victims if they don't have the language skills to engage with the rest of the school. At least with Chinese students, many come to America because they can't get into good Chinese universities but are still rich. I think students who spend 4 years drifting in a school, not making friends outside of other rich international students, and not engaging with professors or courses, are seriously disserved by the university. Imagine doing 4 years of college in, say, France, without speaking the language - how much could you have benefited vs attending a school in your home country?
- elevenfist 11y ago
  As a counterpoint, many of the international students I encountered weren't particularly interested in interacting with students from other backgrounds, or even particularly curious about America. I do remember one student who may have fit the above description in undergrad. He had a heavy accent, (but that's never been a problem with me, most accents are pretty consistent and you can adapt quickly) wasn't doing too well with his studies. He was difficult to engage with in general. However, I was fairly sure he was enjoying the party life when he wasn't in class, and he wasn't interested in interacting with me, or from what I saw, anyone who wasn't from the same background.

ams6110 11y ago

I see this a lot though from my perspective it's more a trait of very wealthy kids than just the Chinese. Wealthy Indian students as well as Americans generally act like entitled assholes (not always, but more often than the typical student). I think it's a symptom of a life of privilege, probably having servants to do anything menial and not used to not getting what they want at all times.

elevenfist 11y ago

The second part of my comment was in fact racist, and I apologize. Thinking back to the effect rampant cheating and stealing had on my university class, it could've been started by anyone. As others have pointed out, there are people from all cultures, (including American students) who behave in this way. Some people point to wealth as a predictor, and my own experiences would suggest a correlation, but there are plenty of people from all walks of life who will burn everything down for so little.

nikdaheratik 11y ago

To be fair, more and more state legislatures have been treating Public universities like private corporations when it comes to ponying up the money come budget time. It's not like this is coming from nowhere.

cr1895 11y ago

To counter your rather tasteless and problematic description of Chinese students with my own anecdote: During my MSc I studied alongside numerous Chinese people (some of whom are now my work colleagues), all of whom exhibited none of the antisocial characteristics you describe. I also witnessed and heard of the racist things people sometimes said to them (cartoonish ni haos, dog-eating comments, etc). Those were gross and so is your description. Really, students from China will dilute the reputation of your degree?!

Chris2048 11y ago
Why tasteless and problematic? Do you think it's biased/untrue? Racial slurs ("dog eating") and observed behavior (littering) are very different things. > Really, students from China will dilute the reputation of your degree?! full context: > not kicking them out or punishing them for what they did negatively impacted everyone's college experience, and will continue to dilute the reputation of my degree.
Dr_tldr 11y ago
Your selective and inaccurate editing of the host comment is dishonest,and the emotionally charged adjectives you use make it sound like you're more interested in virtue signaling than having a discussion. The mistake you're making is that you think one anecdote cancels out another and makes it invalid. Both anecdotal experiences are probably true. Anyone urging us to reject one recounted experience as "gross" and "problematic" is in favor of shutting out information that might be accurate but doesn't fit a preconceived agenda. In other words, not just a liar, but someone actively pressuring others to deny their own experiences. I can't think of a worse person than that, no matter what worthy cause they think it's in the service of.