4 ms·

Yea, having worked for a big health insurance company with many "wellness programs" it's a bit scary what you agree to when you do the biometric screenings. All

by r0m4n0 11y ago

Yea, having worked for a big health insurance company with many "wellness programs" it's a bit scary what you agree to when you do the biometric screenings. All of your vitals go into a database for them to analyze and calculate risk. We weren't quite smart enough to really utilize it and most of the drive to implement these programs were not nefarious. Our intentions were primarily around the fact that requiring people with certain BMIs to lose weight does reduce healthcare costs.

matheweis 11y ago
> ... most of the drive to implement these programs were not nefarious. Nice choice of words there; that would imply some of the drive was nefarious. In my case they wanted all the usual vitals (height, weight, blood pressure), along with a couple of blood draws... and if you started reading the little thing you signed along with it, it was unreal what you were signing away. I had co-workers getting calls from the insurance companies nurse practitioners wanting to discuss their vitals. You're basically talking a turnkey Gattaca scenario. If the intention is truly just to make people aware of potential health risks, partner with GPs and have them do the conversation. I'd be much more comfortable with a "firewalled" abstraction layer between me and the insurance company that doesn't allow for any data sharing.
- superuser2 11y ago
  Insurance companies are strongly incentivized to make the catastrophes they insure against less likely to happen. Car insurance companies are the force for safety engineering in the automotive industry. Property insurance companies audit safes and alarm systems and require that policyholders use good ones. The FDIC is pretty strict about the behavior of its covered banks. Hell, go look at your household appliances and light fixtures - UL is Underwriter's Laboratories. It makes perfect sense that health insurance companies become the force for healthy lifestyles. This topic came up for debate recently and the American people chose to stay the course of addressing healthcare through for-profit insurance companies. Why should those companies not act in their self-interest to reduce risk?
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    > It makes perfect sense that health insurance companies become the force for healthy lifestyles. Insurance companies are incentivized to promote lifestyles that have less healthcare expenses. This often maps to "healthy lifestyles", but that is not universally true. > Why should those companies not act in their self-interest to reduce risk? Because we probably want people to quit smoking and eat better, but those activities cause people to die faster[1], which is cheaper for insurance companies. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.97488...
Someone1234 11y ago
> Our intentions were primarily around the fact that requiring people with certain BMIs to lose weight does reduce healthcare costs. I've never seen a wellness program that "required" that. Most of them are just designed to bring attention to the issue so that you yourself start to address it (i.e. it is a subtle prod, not a hard shove). If requiring weight loss has been implemented I'd be interested to read about it. In particular how employers and insurance companies avoid violating the Americans with Disabilities Act. They started out as a way to stop people ignoring their health until it was too hate. Essentially they're designed around giving out health information and requiring annual checkups (either full health check or biometric screening, employee's choice).
- r0m4n0 11y ago
  Yep totally agree, I always found that to be a slightly bothersome but they are ultimately trying to reduce costs and don't have much control. We had various stipulations as part of the wellness program: First off, this is a "optional" wellness program but opting out could cost the typical employee hundreds of dollars. If you fall within a certain threshold for BMI, blood pressure, and haven't smoked within 30 days you immediately qualify for the health premium discount (or some other custom incentive including PTO, cash, giftcards, etc whatever we negotiated with the group). If you failed the BMI or blood pressure criteria, you have the option to show improvement in your BMI over the course of a period of time. If you smoke or can't/won't improve your BMI or blood pressure you immediately fall into the third ring which involves third party programs that you have to prove you attended. Some of which include achieving a particular goal at Weight Watchers, smoking cessation programs, Walkadoo, etc.

by r0m4n0 11y ago

matheweis 11y ago

> ... most of the drive to implement these programs were not nefarious. Nice choice of words there; that would imply some of the drive was nefarious. In my case they wanted all the usual vitals (height, weight, blood pressure), along with a couple of blood draws... and if you started reading the little thing you signed along with it, it was unreal what you were signing away. I had co-workers getting calls from the insurance companies nurse practitioners wanting to discuss their vitals. You're basically talking a turnkey Gattaca scenario. If the intention is truly just to make people aware of potential health risks, partner with GPs and have them do the conversation. I'd be much more comfortable with a "firewalled" abstraction layer between me and the insurance company that doesn't allow for any data sharing.

superuser2 11y ago
Insurance companies are strongly incentivized to make the catastrophes they insure against less likely to happen. Car insurance companies are the force for safety engineering in the automotive industry. Property insurance companies audit safes and alarm systems and require that policyholders use good ones. The FDIC is pretty strict about the behavior of its covered banks. Hell, go look at your household appliances and light fixtures - UL is Underwriter's Laboratories. It makes perfect sense that health insurance companies become the force for healthy lifestyles. This topic came up for debate recently and the American people chose to stay the course of addressing healthcare through for-profit insurance companies. Why should those companies not act in their self-interest to reduce risk?
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > It makes perfect sense that health insurance companies become the force for healthy lifestyles. Insurance companies are incentivized to promote lifestyles that have less healthcare expenses. This often maps to "healthy lifestyles", but that is not universally true. > Why should those companies not act in their self-interest to reduce risk? Because we probably want people to quit smoking and eat better, but those activities cause people to die faster[1], which is cheaper for insurance companies. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.97488...

Someone1234 11y ago

> Our intentions were primarily around the fact that requiring people with certain BMIs to lose weight does reduce healthcare costs. I've never seen a wellness program that "required" that. Most of them are just designed to bring attention to the issue so that you yourself start to address it (i.e. it is a subtle prod, not a hard shove). If requiring weight loss has been implemented I'd be interested to read about it. In particular how employers and insurance companies avoid violating the Americans with Disabilities Act. They started out as a way to stop people ignoring their health until it was too hate. Essentially they're designed around giving out health information and requiring annual checkups (either full health check or biometric screening, employee's choice).

r0m4n0 11y ago
Yep totally agree, I always found that to be a slightly bothersome but they are ultimately trying to reduce costs and don't have much control. We had various stipulations as part of the wellness program: First off, this is a "optional" wellness program but opting out could cost the typical employee hundreds of dollars. If you fall within a certain threshold for BMI, blood pressure, and haven't smoked within 30 days you immediately qualify for the health premium discount (or some other custom incentive including PTO, cash, giftcards, etc whatever we negotiated with the group). If you failed the BMI or blood pressure criteria, you have the option to show improvement in your BMI over the course of a period of time. If you smoke or can't/won't improve your BMI or blood pressure you immediately fall into the third ring which involves third party programs that you have to prove you attended. Some of which include achieving a particular goal at Weight Watchers, smoking cessation programs, Walkadoo, etc.