4 ms·

Questioning electric vehicles' green cred

2 points by yitchelle 11y ago

dalke 11y ago
In short, the questioning finds that electric cars have a lower carbon footprint then gasoline ones. Here are the most relevant quotes which address that: "If you get an electric car running on electricity made from coal, its impact would probably be about the same as a gasoline car. If you run on anything else it gets much better." We don't use only coal for power generation. "Based on the average current mix of renewable and non-renewable electric power sources in the US, the average of well-to-wheels greenhouse-gas emissions for current battery-electric vehicles is 214 g/mi ... In comparison, the average for current gasoline-powered vehicles ranges from 356 g/mi for direct fuel injection to 409 g/mi for traditional fuel injection."
- yitchelle 11y ago
  Then the question becomes the location of the power station. If Singapore only has coal power status, the studies from the US is not relevant as the car is primarily driven in Singapore. In a country like Paraguay where electricity is 100% hydroelectric, the gains would be fantastic! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Paraguay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Paraguay
  - dalke 11y ago
    Singapore's power grid uses primarily natural gas [1], at 0.5 g CO2/Wh [2]. Coal is about 0.9 g CO2/Wh [3]. One of the links in the article is to http://www.climatecentral.org/news/a-roadmap-to-climate-friendly-cars-2013-16318 http://www.climatecentral.org/news/a-roadmap-to-climate-frie... , which shows the places in the US where it's better to have a hybrid than an electric vehicle, if your primary concern is CO2 emissions. These include West Virginia, where 95.5% of the electricity comes from coal. [8] I've been looking for a country where there are only coal powered power plants. The developed countries countries which use the most coal as a percentage of electricity generation include Australia and Greece [4], at about 75% [4,5]. China is also at 75% [6], while it's 61% in India [7]. There are, it therefore seems, very few places where an electric car is not significantly better than a (non-hybrid) gasoline vehicle with respect to CO2 emissions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapor... ; [2] http://www.techspot.com/news/64063-singapore-first-tesla-model-s-owner-hit-11000.html http://www.techspot.com/news/64063-singapore-first-tesla-mod... ; [3] http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=74&t=11 http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=74&t=11 lists 2.07 pounds CO2/kWh = 2.07/2.2 grams/Wh. ; [4] http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/appendices/australia-s-electricity.aspx http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pro... ; [5] http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Greece_and_coal http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Greece_and_coal ; [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China ; [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India ; [8] http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WV http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WV ; [9] Enough footnotes? :)
mchahn 11y ago
I see electric cars as the first of a pair of technologies that will dramatically improve emissions. When combined with renewable energy like solar, wind, etc. you get the ideal situation. Since both technologies have to be developed, what's wrong with one maturing first, even though not perfect.

2 points by yitchelle 11y ago

dalke 11y ago

In short, the questioning finds that electric cars have a lower carbon footprint then gasoline ones. Here are the most relevant quotes which address that: "If you get an electric car running on electricity made from coal, its impact would probably be about the same as a gasoline car. If you run on anything else it gets much better." We don't use only coal for power generation. "Based on the average current mix of renewable and non-renewable electric power sources in the US, the average of well-to-wheels greenhouse-gas emissions for current battery-electric vehicles is 214 g/mi ... In comparison, the average for current gasoline-powered vehicles ranges from 356 g/mi for direct fuel injection to 409 g/mi for traditional fuel injection."

yitchelle 11y ago
Then the question becomes the location of the power station. If Singapore only has coal power status, the studies from the US is not relevant as the car is primarily driven in Singapore. In a country like Paraguay where electricity is 100% hydroelectric, the gains would be fantastic! [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Paraguay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Paraguay
- dalke 11y ago
  Singapore's power grid uses primarily natural gas [1], at 0.5 g CO2/Wh [2]. Coal is about 0.9 g CO2/Wh [3]. One of the links in the article is to http://www.climatecentral.org/news/a-roadmap-to-climate-friendly-cars-2013-16318 http://www.climatecentral.org/news/a-roadmap-to-climate-frie... , which shows the places in the US where it's better to have a hybrid than an electric vehicle, if your primary concern is CO2 emissions. These include West Virginia, where 95.5% of the electricity comes from coal. [8] I've been looking for a country where there are only coal powered power plants. The developed countries countries which use the most coal as a percentage of electricity generation include Australia and Greece [4], at about 75% [4,5]. China is also at 75% [6], while it's 61% in India [7]. There are, it therefore seems, very few places where an electric car is not significantly better than a (non-hybrid) gasoline vehicle with respect to CO2 emissions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapor... ; [2] http://www.techspot.com/news/64063-singapore-first-tesla-model-s-owner-hit-11000.html http://www.techspot.com/news/64063-singapore-first-tesla-mod... ; [3] http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=74&t=11 http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=74&t=11 lists 2.07 pounds CO2/kWh = 2.07/2.2 grams/Wh. ; [4] http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/appendices/australia-s-electricity.aspx http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pro... ; [5] http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Greece_and_coal http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Greece_and_coal ; [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China ; [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India ; [8] http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WV http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WV ; [9] Enough footnotes? :)

mchahn 11y ago

I see electric cars as the first of a pair of technologies that will dramatically improve emissions. When combined with renewable energy like solar, wind, etc. you get the ideal situation. Since both technologies have to be developed, what's wrong with one maturing first, even though not perfect.