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Honestly having been a "female developer" for 10+ years my main thought on the subject of being that is it's just a job. And it's a job that's really not for ev

Honestly having been a "female developer" for 10+ years my main thought on the subject of being that is it's just a job. And it's a job that's really not for everyone. I've tried to sell a lot of people I've worked with in other fields on it, both men and women, and there are a lot of things that keep people away from it. And most of them are not related to gender. I also have learned to have a healthy suspicion of companies that seem too obsessed with the "women in tech" thing. I usually find they seem to just be doing it because out of causes you could pick in tech, it has little downside for the company and even serves as a recruiting tool.

atom-morgan 11y ago
I've started to think this as well. I believe people, when confronted with dicks at work, are going to attribute it to something that differentiates them from the majority. Someone made a comment that insults your intelligence? Well they must have said it because you're a woman, black, gay, etc. In reality, I think a lot of us go through similar experiences and attribute its occurrence to different characteristics.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Your point - that some people are dicks and they are dicks to everybody is obviously true. But you seem to miss the point that some people are dicks, but are mostly dicks to women, or black people, or disabled people. They may not realise they're being dicks, but other people will recognise elements of dickishness or outright dickery. And also that fighting the dicks makes life better for everyone. I find it weird that when women say (for example) "We are sexually assaulted so often a separate women only London Underground carriage would be welcome, until law enforcement and society can pressure offenders to stop offending" they are met with hostility and denial, rather than a willingness to try to understand the severity of the problem.
  - atom-morgan 11y ago
    I'm not missing that point at all. But I would ask why is someone being a dick to someone because they don't like their personality or hobbies so significantly different than someone doing the same because of a handicap or skin color? People are going to hate other people for a variety of reasons yet we single out a few and get a little more outraged about it than the others. Concerning your last point - I'd guess they're met with hostility and denial because they legitimately don't believe the issue is as widespread as many are led to believe.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Women asking for the carriages are met with hostility and denial. The people providing that hostility and denial might "legitimately believe" anything, but if they haven't bothered reading the crime survey or the crime stats their "legitimate belief" is less legitimate. It's more opinion. As for why we single out people who hate others because of skin colour, but not because of say hobbies: A large number of people have been murdered (or beaten, or denied employment, or denied housing, or etc etc) because they are black. I don't think I can find more than a handful of philatelists who were murdered because they collect stamps. I think the touchiness around discrimination based on skin colour is understandable and based on plenty of evidence.
      - atom-morgan 11y ago
        There’s plenty of people on both sides of the wage gap. Those crime surveys may be flawed in the same way campus sexual assaults had a very generous definition of sexual assault. I’m not sure in this case. I was just throwing out a possible reason for resisting crime statistics. Plenty of people disagree about how those are collected. Yes of course, a lot of people aren’t killed for collecting stamps. But I don’t think many people today are killed specifically for being black or gay either. It does happen, yes. But I believe the overwhelming majority of people just carry on with life. We should all remember that whites vs. colored fountains were deemed lawful by the government. I truly believe most people today just want to go to work, do their job, and get paid regardless of the gender or color of the people around them. And honestly, what more would you expect? We live in the country with the greatest amount of diversity you can’t escape. Americans think Americans are the least tolerant and my travels to other countries and interactions with different people shows me the exact opposite. Edit: I say this as someone who grew up in the South. I lived around racists but most of that stays in their head.
  - tomp 11y ago
    > I find it weird that when women say (for example) "We are sexually assaulted so often a separate women only London Underground carriage would be welcome, until law enforcement and society can pressure offenders to stop offending" they are met with hostility and denial, rather than a willingness to try to understand the severity of the problem. This is all well, until these same women start vehemently opposing male-only spaces (e.g. men's clubs, male barbers, ...). Sure, the reasons might be different, but just as women are concerned about being touched by men (physical), so are men concerned about being judged by women (psychological). I think both deserve to be taken into account and made a reality.
    - atom-morgan 11y ago
      It makes you wonder if the outrage over different types of encounters you mention (physical vs psychological) is also...a social construct?

atom-morgan 11y ago

I've started to think this as well. I believe people, when confronted with dicks at work, are going to attribute it to something that differentiates them from the majority. Someone made a comment that insults your intelligence? Well they must have said it because you're a woman, black, gay, etc. In reality, I think a lot of us go through similar experiences and attribute its occurrence to different characteristics.

DanBC 11y ago
Your point - that some people are dicks and they are dicks to everybody is obviously true. But you seem to miss the point that some people are dicks, but are mostly dicks to women, or black people, or disabled people. They may not realise they're being dicks, but other people will recognise elements of dickishness or outright dickery. And also that fighting the dicks makes life better for everyone. I find it weird that when women say (for example) "We are sexually assaulted so often a separate women only London Underground carriage would be welcome, until law enforcement and society can pressure offenders to stop offending" they are met with hostility and denial, rather than a willingness to try to understand the severity of the problem.
- atom-morgan 11y ago
  I'm not missing that point at all. But I would ask why is someone being a dick to someone because they don't like their personality or hobbies so significantly different than someone doing the same because of a handicap or skin color? People are going to hate other people for a variety of reasons yet we single out a few and get a little more outraged about it than the others. Concerning your last point - I'd guess they're met with hostility and denial because they legitimately don't believe the issue is as widespread as many are led to believe.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Women asking for the carriages are met with hostility and denial. The people providing that hostility and denial might "legitimately believe" anything, but if they haven't bothered reading the crime survey or the crime stats their "legitimate belief" is less legitimate. It's more opinion. As for why we single out people who hate others because of skin colour, but not because of say hobbies: A large number of people have been murdered (or beaten, or denied employment, or denied housing, or etc etc) because they are black. I don't think I can find more than a handful of philatelists who were murdered because they collect stamps. I think the touchiness around discrimination based on skin colour is understandable and based on plenty of evidence.
    - atom-morgan 11y ago
      There’s plenty of people on both sides of the wage gap. Those crime surveys may be flawed in the same way campus sexual assaults had a very generous definition of sexual assault. I’m not sure in this case. I was just throwing out a possible reason for resisting crime statistics. Plenty of people disagree about how those are collected. Yes of course, a lot of people aren’t killed for collecting stamps. But I don’t think many people today are killed specifically for being black or gay either. It does happen, yes. But I believe the overwhelming majority of people just carry on with life. We should all remember that whites vs. colored fountains were deemed lawful by the government. I truly believe most people today just want to go to work, do their job, and get paid regardless of the gender or color of the people around them. And honestly, what more would you expect? We live in the country with the greatest amount of diversity you can’t escape. Americans think Americans are the least tolerant and my travels to other countries and interactions with different people shows me the exact opposite. Edit: I say this as someone who grew up in the South. I lived around racists but most of that stays in their head.
- tomp 11y ago
  > I find it weird that when women say (for example) "We are sexually assaulted so often a separate women only London Underground carriage would be welcome, until law enforcement and society can pressure offenders to stop offending" they are met with hostility and denial, rather than a willingness to try to understand the severity of the problem. This is all well, until these same women start vehemently opposing male-only spaces (e.g. men's clubs, male barbers, ...). Sure, the reasons might be different, but just as women are concerned about being touched by men (physical), so are men concerned about being judged by women (psychological). I think both deserve to be taken into account and made a reality.
  - atom-morgan 11y ago
    It makes you wonder if the outrage over different types of encounters you mention (physical vs psychological) is also...a social construct?