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IRC -> Campfire -> Hipchat and now Slack. I don't understand why large parts of the industry made these transitions, but it seems like for some reason we like t

IRC -> Campfire -> Hipchat and now Slack. I don't understand why large parts of the industry made these transitions, but it seems like for some reason we like to collectively abandon one chat solution and move on to the next hip one. Not sure why that will be different. I am not seeing Warren Buffet's famous moat and am thus not bullish on Slack.

obilgic 11y ago
ICQ -> MSN -> Facebook -> Snapchat
- kamilafsar 11y ago
  x86 Assembly -> C -> C++ -> JavaScript edit: Okay, I get why I'm being downvoted. :) But I just wanted to say, apparently in a vague way, that evolutions happen. People don't invest their precious time just because something is "hip". Apparently they solve a problem of their predecessor.
  - atomic_cheese 11y ago
    C++ to JS is a pretty huge jump. C++ -> Java -> JS might work better.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - pori 11y ago
      Don't forget the apparent JS -> Go
    - yeukhon 11y ago
      Hey you miss PHP, Ruby, Python. The new hotness is called Rust.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    More like LISP -> ML's -> C++, Java, C#, Ocaml -> Rust, Julia, Clojure, and the other better ones. :P
- ajmurmann 11y ago
  Facebook's userbase is still going strong though. Facebook also has a moat, since you cannot just move, because Facebook is where your friends are. With Slack, my company can decide to move and there are no other dependencies on anything external. We just move and that's it.
  - toyg 11y ago
    The moat is the integration points. The real differentiators for Slack are centralized history (better than IRC) and easy web endpoints for integration (better than pretty much anyone else). After a company invests significantly in a myriad of integration tools (both external and homegrown), they have little incentive to move. That's Slack's moat. Still, they have no real presence in the consumer space and that makes them vulnerable to the first player that can really cater to both businesses and consumers. As it is, consumer vendors (MS/Skype, Facebook, Google) are fumbling in the biz space, but that will not last forever. Edit: have a look at Slack 3rd-party apps for what i mean by integration. Because it's so easy to build them, there are tons.
    - ajmurmann 11y ago
      When you say integration, I assume that goes beyond the chat bots that we have seen on other platforms since ages?
- yeukhon 11y ago
  You forgot Yahoo Messenger and AIM. Before Snapchat it was iMessage, WhatsApp (still extremely popular). ICQ -> MSN & Yahoo Messenger & AIM -> SMS (sidekick phone!) -> iMessage & Facebook (the age of iPhone) -> WhatsApp -> Snapchat Hey, 56k was a real thing ;-)
gkoberger 11y ago
Aside from it's zealous following that the others never enjoyed, Slack is also becoming a true platform. None of the other services had so many companies building integrations on top of them.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  It helps that Slack is spending $40M (plus another $40M from their investors) to encourage that. http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/254078 http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/254078
- ihuman 11y ago
  > None of the other services had so many companies building integrations on top of them I disagree. While there is no centralized list of IRC bots (because IRC isn't centralized), there is an uncountable number of IRC bots and libraries for people to make their own.
  - Mandatum 11y ago
    "companies", not services. Aside from tech companies, IRC was never adopted by wider industries. We've been using it amongst a primarily operations-based company which relied on Email and Lync previously.
- moultano 11y ago
  I've already seen groups moving on from slack to other services.
- jinushaun 11y ago
  But WHY did so many people decide to build Slack integration? It's not like HipChat and Campfire didn't have APIs. I say follow the money. My theory is that Slack has influential investors who were extremely successful in selling hype.
ianremsen 11y ago
I still really do not get why technical people don't just use IRC with a decent client (Hexchat?)
- giancarlostoro 11y ago
  Konversation is really nice and cleaned up, runs on every OS like HexChat / XChat does. Slack has a lot of sugar coating compared to any IRC client I've ever used, and I'm surprised nobody's beefed up an IRC client yet to "compete" with Slack. Some clients have really nice features though.
  - subway 11y ago
    Because a new IRC client without widespread protocol extensions means everyone currently using IRC will hate people using the new client due to the fact there is no place to hide metadata. See: Microsoft Comic Chat
    - giancarlostoro 11y ago
      Not every new feature has to be a protocol extension though? Some clients just lack some sugar coating client-sided features. As for protocol extensions, you could always just disable them in-client on servers that don't support said extensions if anything. But my focus is on making more cleaned up IRC clients, a lot of them feel like they're stuck in time when I know there's lots of things that could be done to them to both make them user-friendlier for newcomers and make them a little more convenient to use.
- jypepin 11y ago
  because businesses don't have only technical people, and you don't want to have multiple chat systems, which will eventually bring worst communication between different groups of people. If technical people are on IRC and all the other people are on hipchat, how do you make the 2 groups communicate?
  - deleted 11y ago
draw_down 11y ago
I do. It's so ridiculous to me that people keep comparing it to IRC. It isn't IRC.
x0x0 11y ago
reason I love slack: I never see the android client in the top consumers of my battery. I'm being forced/fighting converting to hipchat, and if I let their client run on my phone, it's regularly in the top battery consumers. Oh, and notifications on my phone work great. I'm not sure how no one else can make this happen, but it appears to be the case.
- hobs 11y ago
  Desktop client or web client + animated gifs = my cpu fan starts spinning.
IgorPartola 11y ago
Personally I went from IRC to Slack. As much as I like the IRC model (decentralized, open protocol) it just lacked so much that even the best client could not fix. Practically speaking, Slack is actually really good. I enjoy using it. I think the progression you are seeing is just an IRC exodus followed by people looking for an minimum viable solution, which may or may not end with Slack.

obilgic 11y ago

ICQ -> MSN -> Facebook -> Snapchat

kamilafsar 11y ago
x86 Assembly -> C -> C++ -> JavaScript edit: Okay, I get why I'm being downvoted. :) But I just wanted to say, apparently in a vague way, that evolutions happen. People don't invest their precious time just because something is "hip". Apparently they solve a problem of their predecessor.
- atomic_cheese 11y ago
  C++ to JS is a pretty huge jump. C++ -> Java -> JS might work better.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - pori 11y ago
    Don't forget the apparent JS -> Go
  - yeukhon 11y ago
    Hey you miss PHP, Ruby, Python. The new hotness is called Rust.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  More like LISP -> ML's -> C++, Java, C#, Ocaml -> Rust, Julia, Clojure, and the other better ones. :P
ajmurmann 11y ago
Facebook's userbase is still going strong though. Facebook also has a moat, since you cannot just move, because Facebook is where your friends are. With Slack, my company can decide to move and there are no other dependencies on anything external. We just move and that's it.
- toyg 11y ago
  The moat is the integration points. The real differentiators for Slack are centralized history (better than IRC) and easy web endpoints for integration (better than pretty much anyone else). After a company invests significantly in a myriad of integration tools (both external and homegrown), they have little incentive to move. That's Slack's moat. Still, they have no real presence in the consumer space and that makes them vulnerable to the first player that can really cater to both businesses and consumers. As it is, consumer vendors (MS/Skype, Facebook, Google) are fumbling in the biz space, but that will not last forever. Edit: have a look at Slack 3rd-party apps for what i mean by integration. Because it's so easy to build them, there are tons.
  - ajmurmann 11y ago
    When you say integration, I assume that goes beyond the chat bots that we have seen on other platforms since ages?
yeukhon 11y ago
You forgot Yahoo Messenger and AIM. Before Snapchat it was iMessage, WhatsApp (still extremely popular). ICQ -> MSN & Yahoo Messenger & AIM -> SMS (sidekick phone!) -> iMessage & Facebook (the age of iPhone) -> WhatsApp -> Snapchat Hey, 56k was a real thing ;-)

gkoberger 11y ago

Aside from it's zealous following that the others never enjoyed, Slack is also becoming a true platform. None of the other services had so many companies building integrations on top of them.

ceejayoz 11y ago
It helps that Slack is spending $40M (plus another $40M from their investors) to encourage that. http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/254078 http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/254078
ihuman 11y ago
> None of the other services had so many companies building integrations on top of them I disagree. While there is no centralized list of IRC bots (because IRC isn't centralized), there is an uncountable number of IRC bots and libraries for people to make their own.
- Mandatum 11y ago
  "companies", not services. Aside from tech companies, IRC was never adopted by wider industries. We've been using it amongst a primarily operations-based company which relied on Email and Lync previously.
moultano 11y ago
I've already seen groups moving on from slack to other services.
jinushaun 11y ago
But WHY did so many people decide to build Slack integration? It's not like HipChat and Campfire didn't have APIs. I say follow the money. My theory is that Slack has influential investors who were extremely successful in selling hype.

ianremsen 11y ago

I still really do not get why technical people don't just use IRC with a decent client (Hexchat?)

giancarlostoro 11y ago
Konversation is really nice and cleaned up, runs on every OS like HexChat / XChat does. Slack has a lot of sugar coating compared to any IRC client I've ever used, and I'm surprised nobody's beefed up an IRC client yet to "compete" with Slack. Some clients have really nice features though.
- subway 11y ago
  Because a new IRC client without widespread protocol extensions means everyone currently using IRC will hate people using the new client due to the fact there is no place to hide metadata. See: Microsoft Comic Chat
  - giancarlostoro 11y ago
    Not every new feature has to be a protocol extension though? Some clients just lack some sugar coating client-sided features. As for protocol extensions, you could always just disable them in-client on servers that don't support said extensions if anything. But my focus is on making more cleaned up IRC clients, a lot of them feel like they're stuck in time when I know there's lots of things that could be done to them to both make them user-friendlier for newcomers and make them a little more convenient to use.
jypepin 11y ago
because businesses don't have only technical people, and you don't want to have multiple chat systems, which will eventually bring worst communication between different groups of people. If technical people are on IRC and all the other people are on hipchat, how do you make the 2 groups communicate?
- deleted 11y ago

draw_down 11y ago

I do. It's so ridiculous to me that people keep comparing it to IRC. It isn't IRC.

x0x0 11y ago

reason I love slack: I never see the android client in the top consumers of my battery. I'm being forced/fighting converting to hipchat, and if I let their client run on my phone, it's regularly in the top battery consumers. Oh, and notifications on my phone work great. I'm not sure how no one else can make this happen, but it appears to be the case.

hobs 11y ago
Desktop client or web client + animated gifs = my cpu fan starts spinning.

IgorPartola 11y ago

Personally I went from IRC to Slack. As much as I like the IRC model (decentralized, open protocol) it just lacked so much that even the best client could not fix. Practically speaking, Slack is actually really good. I enjoy using it. I think the progression you are seeing is just an IRC exodus followed by people looking for an minimum viable solution, which may or may not end with Slack.