4 ms·

This isn't a popular question, but is there really a problem? I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how the

by bduerst 11y ago

This isn't a popular question, but is there really a problem? I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. Even with government agencies (NSA/FBI) overstepping or trying to overstep their limits, isn't the root problem with policy makers keeping them in line?

astazangasta 11y ago
We're possibly months away from a Trump presidency, and you're not worried that this sort of power exists in the world? Trump aside, the general trend is increasingly fascist. Maybe you're safely ensconced in the glitterati, but I am a known leftist with brown skin; I'm going to worry.
- bduerst 11y ago
  Come on, even this nightmare scenario isn't that nightmarish. The POTUS commands the nuclear arsenal, which is arguably more powerful than knowing my shopping habits.
  - majewsky 11y ago
    Depends. The POTUS is not likely to use the nuclear arsenal against you. Your personal data, though, is much more actionable from his POV.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      Yes, because I was implying Trump would nuke the U.S. /s You have only to listen to his rhetoric on foreign policy to connect the dots about how giving him power is potentially harmful to the U.S. Unless you think he's going to try to sell everyone steaks and golf course timeshares as the POTUS, then I'm worried.
AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
I will answer you with a lengthy anecdote. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy something from a popular online shop. The shop offered various payment options. I won't bother with details, so let's make it simple: option A was no risk on their side but time consuming, while B was higher risk but fast procedure. I was time pressed, so I was happy to see B in their FAQ. After signup and checkout there was no option B for payment. I thought it was a bug in their site and sent them an email. I then decided to have it shipped directly to my parents (I wanted to use the item over the holidays) and set up an account in their name. After checkout, option B was suddenly available. Yay, they fixed it. I made the order. Back to my account: option B was still missing. Huh. I then made several new accounts using various addresses over the city. The pattern that emerged was that in more affluent zip codes option B was available, in poorer parts it wasn't. Several days later, my email was answered: they claimed not to offer B to any new accounts on principle. This clearly wasn't the case. My sample set wasn't big, and maybe it was a bug or A/B testing plus coincidence, but it made me think. Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes. A boring dystopia? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650
  - AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
    It is not enough for a cyberpunk action movie. The consequences for society are chilling, however. Picture a society in which everyone has even more reason to behave and live in a certain way just so they don't get misjudged by some algorithm.
Nadya 11y ago
>I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. You aren't until you are at which point it is too late. "First they came for..." yatta yatta. Power is often only given in small, seemingly harmless chunks. When someone tries to take too much power - people take notice and prevent it because they know what others often do with too much power. The problem as I see it is that too few people notice the small chips and blocks of power they willingly give away until they realize they've given away too much and no longer hold the majority of the power. Only then do they see the foolishness in what they have done, but by then it is already too late: they are powerless.

by bduerst 11y ago

astazangasta 11y ago

We're possibly months away from a Trump presidency, and you're not worried that this sort of power exists in the world? Trump aside, the general trend is increasingly fascist. Maybe you're safely ensconced in the glitterati, but I am a known leftist with brown skin; I'm going to worry.

bduerst 11y ago
Come on, even this nightmare scenario isn't that nightmarish. The POTUS commands the nuclear arsenal, which is arguably more powerful than knowing my shopping habits.
- majewsky 11y ago
  Depends. The POTUS is not likely to use the nuclear arsenal against you. Your personal data, though, is much more actionable from his POV.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    Yes, because I was implying Trump would nuke the U.S. /s You have only to listen to his rhetoric on foreign policy to connect the dots about how giving him power is potentially harmful to the U.S. Unless you think he's going to try to sell everyone steaks and golf course timeshares as the POTUS, then I'm worried.

AnonymousPlanet 11y ago

I will answer you with a lengthy anecdote. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy something from a popular online shop. The shop offered various payment options. I won't bother with details, so let's make it simple: option A was no risk on their side but time consuming, while B was higher risk but fast procedure. I was time pressed, so I was happy to see B in their FAQ. After signup and checkout there was no option B for payment. I thought it was a bug in their site and sent them an email. I then decided to have it shipped directly to my parents (I wanted to use the item over the holidays) and set up an account in their name. After checkout, option B was suddenly available. Yay, they fixed it. I made the order. Back to my account: option B was still missing. Huh. I then made several new accounts using various addresses over the city. The pattern that emerged was that in more affluent zip codes option B was available, in poorer parts it wasn't. Several days later, my email was answered: they claimed not to offer B to any new accounts on principle. This clearly wasn't the case. My sample set wasn't big, and maybe it was a bug or A/B testing plus coincidence, but it made me think. Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes.

DanBC 11y ago
> Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes. A boring dystopia? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650
- AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
  It is not enough for a cyberpunk action movie. The consequences for society are chilling, however. Picture a society in which everyone has even more reason to behave and live in a certain way just so they don't get misjudged by some algorithm.

Nadya 11y ago

>I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. You aren't until you are at which point it is too late. "First they came for..." yatta yatta. Power is often only given in small, seemingly harmless chunks. When someone tries to take too much power - people take notice and prevent it because they know what others often do with too much power. The problem as I see it is that too few people notice the small chips and blocks of power they willingly give away until they realize they've given away too much and no longer hold the majority of the power. Only then do they see the foolishness in what they have done, but by then it is already too late: they are powerless.