4 ms·

What evidence do you have of that? (I'm genuinely curious) Anecdotally, while agree that they are a complete joke, I certainly haven't flown any less recently.

gridspy 17y ago
I didn't provide any evidence because I haven't got the research to back my claim up. The only way to gather real data would be to publicly proclaim some random blocks of calendar dates to be TSA free and see how much tourism changed during that time. I'm sure it would be interesting to see how much terrorism changed over that period (any effects would probably be exaggerated). I can tell you it affects my personal travel plans (I try to avoid a stopover in the US on the way from NZ to London for example) and it makes me feel more negatively about the US overall. It doesn't take much to tip the balance from "I'd love to go" to "I'd like to go, but xyz location seems easier / more fun" Since I live outside the US, I have an actual choice - if you lived inside the US you are pretty much forced to tolerate the TSA whenever you fly. I read a lot of horror stories online, and I don't like being near people with sidearms.
- mrduncan 17y ago
  Fair enough. I suppose, being already inside of the US, that I don't really have a choice in the matter if I need to go somewhere. I certainly haven't thought twice about flying instead of driving, in fact I'd definitely prefer to fly if it's more than a couple hours drive. Being a fairly frequent flyer, I guess I've just gotten used to their "process". I'm reminded of a post from a little while ago about Israeli airport security. Highly recommended if you haven't seen it before - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1024850 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1024850
  - gridspy 17y ago
    Yes, that is how security should be done. I read that report and am simultaneously amazed that this system is being embraced and disgusted that it isn't more widely adopted. All the TSA does is turn people off US travel - it is 'letting the terrorists win' by having huge effects on the USA's standard of everyday living. Once again, all rhetoric, no evidence. I keep waiting for the TSA to realise that this is all security theatre and change to an invisible, but effective security system.
jacquesm 17y ago
I have, I have tons of friends stateside but I've vowed to stay away until normality returns. If it never does than too bad, there are plenty of countries where I can go without being insulted every time I have to deal with the authorities. I'm not a masochist.
icefox 17y ago
Not turism, but for business I plan on driving rather than flying to Toronto from Boston in a few weeks when I have to go back.
petercooper 17y ago
This is woefully anecdotal and I wouldn't let it stop me, but I've mentioned my regular trips to the US to a lot of people here in the UK and I frequently get responses like "Ooh, America - aren't they supposed to be really scary letting you in when you get there?" The TSA (even though they're not known as that) has a reputation in all sorts of places you wouldn't expect. Not that that should put anyone off, but hey, I'm always a bit on edge when I arrive there - they just create that atmosphere (to sweat out the true nasties, I guess).
- gridspy 17y ago
  Despite its utility in making the undesired 0.01% uncomfortable, a feeling of oppression is still not a nice first or last impression of a country.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    And since the bad guys have no doubt anticipated just that it seems to be effective only against those that weren't planning any nasty stuff anyway.
cabalamat 17y ago
I live in the UK. A number of my friends have either been hassled by the TSA, or have expressed reluctance to travel to the USA because of them. Anecdotal, I admit.
- jedc 17y ago
  I'm a US citizen but currently live in the UK. I'm more interrogated going back to the US than I am any other country. (And that list includes everything from Ireland to the Ukraine.) Personally I don't think citizens should be made to feel that way by their own border police!
  - jrockway 17y ago
    I've had the same experiences (although I live in the US also). At some point, I have to wonder what happens if I say "no further questions" and just walk through the customs area. Are they going to deport me ... back to where I am?
    - gridspy 17y ago
      Very very bad things happen.
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        Yes, but if everybody does it then it might actually restore some normalcy.

gridspy 17y ago

I didn't provide any evidence because I haven't got the research to back my claim up. The only way to gather real data would be to publicly proclaim some random blocks of calendar dates to be TSA free and see how much tourism changed during that time. I'm sure it would be interesting to see how much terrorism changed over that period (any effects would probably be exaggerated). I can tell you it affects my personal travel plans (I try to avoid a stopover in the US on the way from NZ to London for example) and it makes me feel more negatively about the US overall. It doesn't take much to tip the balance from "I'd love to go" to "I'd like to go, but xyz location seems easier / more fun" Since I live outside the US, I have an actual choice - if you lived inside the US you are pretty much forced to tolerate the TSA whenever you fly. I read a lot of horror stories online, and I don't like being near people with sidearms.

mrduncan 17y ago
Fair enough. I suppose, being already inside of the US, that I don't really have a choice in the matter if I need to go somewhere. I certainly haven't thought twice about flying instead of driving, in fact I'd definitely prefer to fly if it's more than a couple hours drive. Being a fairly frequent flyer, I guess I've just gotten used to their "process". I'm reminded of a post from a little while ago about Israeli airport security. Highly recommended if you haven't seen it before - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1024850 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1024850
- gridspy 17y ago
  Yes, that is how security should be done. I read that report and am simultaneously amazed that this system is being embraced and disgusted that it isn't more widely adopted. All the TSA does is turn people off US travel - it is 'letting the terrorists win' by having huge effects on the USA's standard of everyday living. Once again, all rhetoric, no evidence. I keep waiting for the TSA to realise that this is all security theatre and change to an invisible, but effective security system.

jacquesm 17y ago

I have, I have tons of friends stateside but I've vowed to stay away until normality returns. If it never does than too bad, there are plenty of countries where I can go without being insulted every time I have to deal with the authorities. I'm not a masochist.

icefox 17y ago

Not turism, but for business I plan on driving rather than flying to Toronto from Boston in a few weeks when I have to go back.

petercooper 17y ago

This is woefully anecdotal and I wouldn't let it stop me, but I've mentioned my regular trips to the US to a lot of people here in the UK and I frequently get responses like "Ooh, America - aren't they supposed to be really scary letting you in when you get there?" The TSA (even though they're not known as that) has a reputation in all sorts of places you wouldn't expect. Not that that should put anyone off, but hey, I'm always a bit on edge when I arrive there - they just create that atmosphere (to sweat out the true nasties, I guess).

gridspy 17y ago
Despite its utility in making the undesired 0.01% uncomfortable, a feeling of oppression is still not a nice first or last impression of a country.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  And since the bad guys have no doubt anticipated just that it seems to be effective only against those that weren't planning any nasty stuff anyway.

cabalamat 17y ago

I live in the UK. A number of my friends have either been hassled by the TSA, or have expressed reluctance to travel to the USA because of them. Anecdotal, I admit.

jedc 17y ago
I'm a US citizen but currently live in the UK. I'm more interrogated going back to the US than I am any other country. (And that list includes everything from Ireland to the Ukraine.) Personally I don't think citizens should be made to feel that way by their own border police!
- jrockway 17y ago
  I've had the same experiences (although I live in the US also). At some point, I have to wonder what happens if I say "no further questions" and just walk through the customs area. Are they going to deport me ... back to where I am?
  - gridspy 17y ago
    Very very bad things happen.
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      Yes, but if everybody does it then it might actually restore some normalcy.