11 ms·

"though around 120 of those jobs in customer service will be replaced through outsourcing." Hiring a cheap call center in some other country I suppose.

product50 11y ago
So what? Would you rather have the company scale and have a chance to do well or let it fail given their current cost structure. Think long term. If the company does well, they will hire more Americans workers in roles which do require more application and intellect.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  I actually think customer service require more skills than it may appear straight away - you have to learn to make angry people like you, or at least think they have been treated fairly. And I have never seen a successful startup that didn't listen to its users - which you can't do if the people who are supposed to talk with them are in a different continent and don't understand the language really well.
  - pc86 11y ago
    So by definition you have never seen a successful startup with offshore support?
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    I agree. Customer Service needs to be an equal partner on the team with Sales and Development. Growth is great, but it means nothing if you're bleeding yourself dry by not serving those customers you're obtaining.
- protomyth 11y ago
  I think its a bit disingenuous to phrase that part like they are just "replacing" those jobs locally. They are lost to the local community, and will never come back. Plus, I wouldn't expect the same level of service (change in stake and incentive), and there is now another possible data breach target.
  - davidw 11y ago
    Companies come and go. It's a fact of life. And it's a lot better that way than keeping crappy companies around because they provide jobs. Source: I lived in Italy for 15 years.
- marvel_boy 11y ago
  > require more application and intellect What? Customer service requires intellect, a lot .
- betenoire 11y ago
  > Would you rather have the company scale and have a chance to do well or let it fail given their current cost structure. I bet there are other options too.
- emodendroket 11y ago
  Tech startups are a pretty lousy plan for general job growth considering they tend to employ far fewer people, relative to their revenue, than most businesses.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    If their new plan (restaurant discounts linked to credit cards) is going to go anywhere, it's going to take a TON of sales staff cold-calling resturants all across the country. Unless they are content to just go with national franchises.
- untog 11y ago
  Unfortunately, this is the perception that ensures customer service experiences stay horrible. It actually takes a lot of skill (including and especially personal skills) to satisfy an angry customer. If you can do it you'll win a loyal customer. But most people don't bother.
  - davidw 11y ago
    Think of it as an easy way to differentiate your own company, by offering quality customer service.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > If the company does well, they will hire more Americans workers in roles which do require more application and intellect. Leaving aside the implication that customer service doesn't require either application or intellect, why would they do this if their experience teaches them that outsourcing gets the job done at a fraction of the cost?
STRiDEX 11y ago
I hope the jobs stay here. I worked in an IT call center during my time in college in Northern California. I was hourly, but everyone earned around 45-55k which is way cheaper than what they were paying for the same employee in the Bay Area. We were able to drive down for on site training and we all speak English without accents. Really made me believe more companies need to try outsourcing to college towns and rural cities.
- flatline 11y ago
  You realize that you can cut those salaries by 75% by outsourcing them, right? It's really a simple equation of how much you stand to lose from customers having to deal with foreign call center employees vs how much you save. How many people ever have to deal with LS support in the first place, and then, over an issue that is not relatively easy to handle? I bet this was a very easy decision to make.
- djloche 11y ago
  Agree - I worked in a call center for several years and it paid the bills, and improved 'soft skills' while letting me develop more technical knowledge on the side. Since I wasn't standing on my feet all day making sandwiches or waiting tables, I could come home after solving problems for angry people all day (thankfully I worked for a place that gave their support people the ability to actually resolve the problems), I would still have the energy and mindspace to be able to work on side projects and learn on my own time. As much as companies try to automate things, I really hope that localized support makes a comeback.
  - seizethecheese 11y ago
    Ive had both a call center job and a job making sandwiches all day while teaching myself programming on the side. I progressed way further during the sandwich-making years. It was hard to come home after being on a computer all day dealing with real problems (call center) and sit down to program, whereas after working in a restaurant I was physically exhausted but desperate for a cognitive outlet.
sinatra 11y ago
If you had your savings in this company as a shareholder, and if you knew that the company could survive and maybe prosper (unlikely in case of LS) by reducing its cost of customer service by outsourcing it, then would you not support this move? This is not very different from when you decided to buy a decent quality product made in China when you could have bought a slightly better quality product made in USA for 2X or 3X the price. I'm obviously guessing here to be more dramatic, but the point is true in general. Cost has always been a major factor in many decisions we make as individuals or organizations. And for a company (which has fiduciary duty to its shareholders), cost is definitely a more important factor than being able to hire Americans.
- JonFish85 11y ago
  If you have savings in this company as a shareholder, you're going to lose your savings. The only people who will make money at this point are the VCs, who by law can't have their "savings" invested in the company. If you're not a VC holding shares at the company you're going to be wiped out via dilution or multipliers in the event of an exit, and god forbid they raise MORE money, because the terms on that deal are going to be pretty rough. Even if the company manages to turn itself around, older existing shares will probably be wiped out just due to dilution in retaining its executives and share-backed loans, or, again, if it has to raise more money, terms on new money.
  - sinatra 11y ago
    Whether a shareholder will get any returns in Living Social is not what I'm talking about. As a company, their job is to do whatever they legally can to protect (and grow) a shareholder's investment. If hiring Americans goes against that, then they should not hire Americans.
    - JonFish85 11y ago
      I was just responding to the first part of your post, specifically around a shareholder had their savings invested in the company. Management has a legal responsibility to do what's best for the company, yes, but that often is at odds with an investor who got in before the company turned sour.

product50 11y ago

So what? Would you rather have the company scale and have a chance to do well or let it fail given their current cost structure. Think long term. If the company does well, they will hire more Americans workers in roles which do require more application and intellect.

tomjen3 11y ago
I actually think customer service require more skills than it may appear straight away - you have to learn to make angry people like you, or at least think they have been treated fairly. And I have never seen a successful startup that didn't listen to its users - which you can't do if the people who are supposed to talk with them are in a different continent and don't understand the language really well.
- pc86 11y ago
  So by definition you have never seen a successful startup with offshore support?
- moron4hire 11y ago
  I agree. Customer Service needs to be an equal partner on the team with Sales and Development. Growth is great, but it means nothing if you're bleeding yourself dry by not serving those customers you're obtaining.
protomyth 11y ago
I think its a bit disingenuous to phrase that part like they are just "replacing" those jobs locally. They are lost to the local community, and will never come back. Plus, I wouldn't expect the same level of service (change in stake and incentive), and there is now another possible data breach target.
- davidw 11y ago
  Companies come and go. It's a fact of life. And it's a lot better that way than keeping crappy companies around because they provide jobs. Source: I lived in Italy for 15 years.
marvel_boy 11y ago
> require more application and intellect What? Customer service requires intellect, a lot .
betenoire 11y ago
> Would you rather have the company scale and have a chance to do well or let it fail given their current cost structure. I bet there are other options too.
emodendroket 11y ago
Tech startups are a pretty lousy plan for general job growth considering they tend to employ far fewer people, relative to their revenue, than most businesses.
- ams6110 11y ago
  If their new plan (restaurant discounts linked to credit cards) is going to go anywhere, it's going to take a TON of sales staff cold-calling resturants all across the country. Unless they are content to just go with national franchises.
untog 11y ago
Unfortunately, this is the perception that ensures customer service experiences stay horrible. It actually takes a lot of skill (including and especially personal skills) to satisfy an angry customer. If you can do it you'll win a loyal customer. But most people don't bother.
- davidw 11y ago
  Think of it as an easy way to differentiate your own company, by offering quality customer service.
pavel_lishin 11y ago
> If the company does well, they will hire more Americans workers in roles which do require more application and intellect. Leaving aside the implication that customer service doesn't require either application or intellect, why would they do this if their experience teaches them that outsourcing gets the job done at a fraction of the cost?

STRiDEX 11y ago

I hope the jobs stay here. I worked in an IT call center during my time in college in Northern California. I was hourly, but everyone earned around 45-55k which is way cheaper than what they were paying for the same employee in the Bay Area. We were able to drive down for on site training and we all speak English without accents. Really made me believe more companies need to try outsourcing to college towns and rural cities.

flatline 11y ago
You realize that you can cut those salaries by 75% by outsourcing them, right? It's really a simple equation of how much you stand to lose from customers having to deal with foreign call center employees vs how much you save. How many people ever have to deal with LS support in the first place, and then, over an issue that is not relatively easy to handle? I bet this was a very easy decision to make.
djloche 11y ago
Agree - I worked in a call center for several years and it paid the bills, and improved 'soft skills' while letting me develop more technical knowledge on the side. Since I wasn't standing on my feet all day making sandwiches or waiting tables, I could come home after solving problems for angry people all day (thankfully I worked for a place that gave their support people the ability to actually resolve the problems), I would still have the energy and mindspace to be able to work on side projects and learn on my own time. As much as companies try to automate things, I really hope that localized support makes a comeback.
- seizethecheese 11y ago
  Ive had both a call center job and a job making sandwiches all day while teaching myself programming on the side. I progressed way further during the sandwich-making years. It was hard to come home after being on a computer all day dealing with real problems (call center) and sit down to program, whereas after working in a restaurant I was physically exhausted but desperate for a cognitive outlet.

sinatra 11y ago

If you had your savings in this company as a shareholder, and if you knew that the company could survive and maybe prosper (unlikely in case of LS) by reducing its cost of customer service by outsourcing it, then would you not support this move? This is not very different from when you decided to buy a decent quality product made in China when you could have bought a slightly better quality product made in USA for 2X or 3X the price. I'm obviously guessing here to be more dramatic, but the point is true in general. Cost has always been a major factor in many decisions we make as individuals or organizations. And for a company (which has fiduciary duty to its shareholders), cost is definitely a more important factor than being able to hire Americans.

JonFish85 11y ago
If you have savings in this company as a shareholder, you're going to lose your savings. The only people who will make money at this point are the VCs, who by law can't have their "savings" invested in the company. If you're not a VC holding shares at the company you're going to be wiped out via dilution or multipliers in the event of an exit, and god forbid they raise MORE money, because the terms on that deal are going to be pretty rough. Even if the company manages to turn itself around, older existing shares will probably be wiped out just due to dilution in retaining its executives and share-backed loans, or, again, if it has to raise more money, terms on new money.
- sinatra 11y ago
  Whether a shareholder will get any returns in Living Social is not what I'm talking about. As a company, their job is to do whatever they legally can to protect (and grow) a shareholder's investment. If hiring Americans goes against that, then they should not hire Americans.
  - JonFish85 11y ago
    I was just responding to the first part of your post, specifically around a shareholder had their savings invested in the company. Management has a legal responsibility to do what's best for the company, yes, but that often is at odds with an investor who got in before the company turned sour.