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Why are so many people assuming that the initial list represented his comprehensive judgement of all films ever? Because he's doing it in his role of NYU profe

by dhimes 11y ago

Why are so many people assuming that the initial list represented his comprehensive judgement of all films ever? Because he's doing it in his role of NYU professor! If Donald Knuth released a list of "CS papers every professional should read," I would fully expect it to be his comprehensive judgement of all papers ever. Do you think that he may have missed one? Do you think Spike may have? In both cases it's their professional environment, and I would expect that it would have been discussed in their professional environments. To imply that they missed something important is to imply that their close colleagues missed it too. It could happen, of course, but not something that you think about when you read a list like that. Until you see that he missed "Captain Ron." Then all bets are off.

aninhumer 11y ago
I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of effort that would be involved in comprehensively judging an entire field.[0] Sure he's a professor, but he only has so much time in the day. At some point he has to say "Right, I think that covers everything important" and get on with teaching. Not to mention, according to a quote in this thread Spike himself disagrees with you: >He also asks backers to send in their suggestions for the list "because of course there's going to be stuff I left out." [0] Although I might just about expect such a thing from Knuth...
- dhimes 11y ago
  "Right, I think that covers everything important" That would be comprehensive. As I said in a sister answer, I would expect a little tweaking of the list after criticism and feedback, but I wouldn't expect large changes to it. If Jim Shepard published a list of essential reading for literary fiction writers, I would expect it to be his best idea about what aspiring fiction writers should read to learn from. Writers who could emulate (or whatever writers do) the authors in that list would be well on their way to being good writers. It doesn't mean he has to have read every lit fic short story or novel out there. It does mean that these works form a comprehensive display of whatever it is that makes good fiction.
lake99 11y ago
I would apply more lenient standards when looking at lists of arts or crafts. Sure, Spike Lee is a professional in the field, and I am not. But many of the films I see in his list, I would consider "boring". This is his personal list of films that contain important teaching moments. And because it is the arts, the list has to be personal. Knuth leaving out an important CS paper may do grave disservice to a huge chunk of the field (Edit: I mean disservice to the readers who intend to learn from the list). Science and technology builds on prior work. The arts, not so much. If I ignore the lessons taught by "The Godfather", the film I'm making may be weak in some aspects, as judged by some people. If I ignore the lessons taught by Turing's works on computability, my software (or research paper) could potentially be stillborn.
- dhimes 11y ago
  I would apply more lenient standards when looking at lists of arts or crafts Why? I would expect the top of the line people in the arts to be as professional as in any other field. I would expect that great directors (and actors for that matter) have a notebook (or something) of great scenes and why they are great. I would expect artists to have their equivalent. I mean, goddamn, if you are a great director and you say you have a list of essential viewing, then, yeah, I would assume that according to you the list would be at least very nearly complete. If may evolve a bit over time after review and discussion, but I wouldn't expect a 30% change in the list.

by dhimes 11y ago

aninhumer 11y ago

I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of effort that would be involved in comprehensively judging an entire field.[0] Sure he's a professor, but he only has so much time in the day. At some point he has to say "Right, I think that covers everything important" and get on with teaching. Not to mention, according to a quote in this thread Spike himself disagrees with you: >He also asks backers to send in their suggestions for the list "because of course there's going to be stuff I left out." [0] Although I might just about expect such a thing from Knuth...

dhimes 11y ago
"Right, I think that covers everything important" That would be comprehensive. As I said in a sister answer, I would expect a little tweaking of the list after criticism and feedback, but I wouldn't expect large changes to it. If Jim Shepard published a list of essential reading for literary fiction writers, I would expect it to be his best idea about what aspiring fiction writers should read to learn from. Writers who could emulate (or whatever writers do) the authors in that list would be well on their way to being good writers. It doesn't mean he has to have read every lit fic short story or novel out there. It does mean that these works form a comprehensive display of whatever it is that makes good fiction.

lake99 11y ago

I would apply more lenient standards when looking at lists of arts or crafts. Sure, Spike Lee is a professional in the field, and I am not. But many of the films I see in his list, I would consider "boring". This is his personal list of films that contain important teaching moments. And because it is the arts, the list has to be personal. Knuth leaving out an important CS paper may do grave disservice to a huge chunk of the field (Edit: I mean disservice to the readers who intend to learn from the list). Science and technology builds on prior work. The arts, not so much. If I ignore the lessons taught by "The Godfather", the film I'm making may be weak in some aspects, as judged by some people. If I ignore the lessons taught by Turing's works on computability, my software (or research paper) could potentially be stillborn.

dhimes 11y ago
I would apply more lenient standards when looking at lists of arts or crafts Why? I would expect the top of the line people in the arts to be as professional as in any other field. I would expect that great directors (and actors for that matter) have a notebook (or something) of great scenes and why they are great. I would expect artists to have their equivalent. I mean, goddamn, if you are a great director and you say you have a list of essential viewing, then, yeah, I would assume that according to you the list would be at least very nearly complete. If may evolve a bit over time after review and discussion, but I wouldn't expect a 30% change in the list.