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Like I said it's not about the average person, it's about someone with something to hide. Those with something to hide will always go the extra distance. The i

by jpgvm 11y ago

Like I said it's not about the average person, it's about someone with something to hide. Those with something to hide will always go the extra distance. The issue I take with the FBI approach is it will have no effect on those that have stuff to hide but destroy any semblance privacy for those that don't. Terrorists will use GPG, citizens will use their backdoored iPhone full disk encryption and everyone but the terrorists lose.

emodendroket 11y ago
Oh. I misinterpreted what you were saying to mean "it doesn't matter because we have GPG."
Aelinsaar 11y ago
That's a problem too. Right now people with something to hide don't stand out amidst a background of similar encryption. If they suddenly have to switch to something relatively more exotic, that alone would be a coup for people in signals intelligence, don't you think?
- jpgvm 11y ago
  Yeah definitely. This is currently the problem with ToR. The people that need the protection that ToR provides paint a target on their backs because there isn't enough ToR usage for them to be inconspicuous. Which is sad.. because for all of the bad usage of ToR there are people that depend on it to preserve free speech and any weakening of it could easily get them imprisoned or in many cases executed.
- graycat 11y ago
  It doesn't have to look "exotic" at all: Sam just sends Joe a file in base 64. But that is how all the multimedia content is sent in e-mail now. Until dig into what Sam sent, it looks like just another JPG file sent in e-mail. But translate it from base 64 and give it to an image program and will discover that the file is not a JPG file. Or a PNG, BMP, MP3, WAV, EXE etc. file either. But about have to translate from base 64 to conclude this.
Freak_NL 11y ago
> it's not about the average person, it's about someone with something to hide Keep in mind that the FBI would love it if everyone held that to be true. We all have something to hide, average person or not. No matter if you are a criminal, political activist, pervert, lawyer, priest, or just the baker down the street. Paraphrasing John Oliver: your banking statements, medical data, dick pics, private messages, dick pics, dick pics, and your secret diary are all things you most likely want to hide. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsjZ2r9Ygzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsjZ2r9Ygzw ) The FBI would not mind a situation where only people with technological know-how use GnuPG, LUKS with dm-crypt, etc., and the rest whatever came with their smartphone. Most criminals are not particularly tech-savvy, so if that group loses access to strong encryption by default, they largely gain what they want. Of course there is no practical way to make the use of strong encryption by individual citizens around the globe illegal, and they know this. They may however succeed in outlawing strong disk encryption available by default on store-bought devices. So when a suspect uses an Android or IPhone, and the FBI has his or her device, they want to be able to access its contents without the suspect's consent. Ideally, they also want the most popular messaging platforms (like Facebook's WhatsApp) to have a backdoor available, in order for the vendor to be able to comply with warrants for such data.
ikeboy 11y ago
>Always I gave some sources in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10582206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10582206 that might change your mind. Changing the default makes a difference.
stonemetal 11y ago
I'll just leave this here: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/tor-harvard-bomb-suspect/ http://www.dailydot.com/crime/tor-harvard-bomb-suspect/

by jpgvm 11y ago

emodendroket 11y ago

Oh. I misinterpreted what you were saying to mean "it doesn't matter because we have GPG."

Aelinsaar 11y ago

That's a problem too. Right now people with something to hide don't stand out amidst a background of similar encryption. If they suddenly have to switch to something relatively more exotic, that alone would be a coup for people in signals intelligence, don't you think?

jpgvm 11y ago
Yeah definitely. This is currently the problem with ToR. The people that need the protection that ToR provides paint a target on their backs because there isn't enough ToR usage for them to be inconspicuous. Which is sad.. because for all of the bad usage of ToR there are people that depend on it to preserve free speech and any weakening of it could easily get them imprisoned or in many cases executed.
graycat 11y ago
It doesn't have to look "exotic" at all: Sam just sends Joe a file in base 64. But that is how all the multimedia content is sent in e-mail now. Until dig into what Sam sent, it looks like just another JPG file sent in e-mail. But translate it from base 64 and give it to an image program and will discover that the file is not a JPG file. Or a PNG, BMP, MP3, WAV, EXE etc. file either. But about have to translate from base 64 to conclude this.

Freak_NL 11y ago

> it's not about the average person, it's about someone with something to hide Keep in mind that the FBI would love it if everyone held that to be true. We all have something to hide, average person or not. No matter if you are a criminal, political activist, pervert, lawyer, priest, or just the baker down the street. Paraphrasing John Oliver: your banking statements, medical data, dick pics, private messages, dick pics, dick pics, and your secret diary are all things you most likely want to hide. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsjZ2r9Ygzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsjZ2r9Ygzw ) The FBI would not mind a situation where only people with technological know-how use GnuPG, LUKS with dm-crypt, etc., and the rest whatever came with their smartphone. Most criminals are not particularly tech-savvy, so if that group loses access to strong encryption by default, they largely gain what they want. Of course there is no practical way to make the use of strong encryption by individual citizens around the globe illegal, and they know this. They may however succeed in outlawing strong disk encryption available by default on store-bought devices. So when a suspect uses an Android or IPhone, and the FBI has his or her device, they want to be able to access its contents without the suspect's consent. Ideally, they also want the most popular messaging platforms (like Facebook's WhatsApp) to have a backdoor available, in order for the vendor to be able to comply with warrants for such data.

ikeboy 11y ago

>Always I gave some sources in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10582206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10582206 that might change your mind. Changing the default makes a difference.

stonemetal 11y ago

I'll just leave this here: http://www.dailydot.com/crime/tor-harvard-bomb-suspect/ http://www.dailydot.com/crime/tor-harvard-bomb-suspect/