3 ms·

The parent asked whether the added films were either considered worthy but subconsciously omitted from the initial list, or considered unworthy and then added t

The parent asked whether the added films were either considered worthy but subconsciously omitted from the initial list, or considered unworthy and then added to the subsequent list anyway. This question ignores the possibility that their worthiness was simply never considered at all in the creation of the initial list. EDIT: It's possible the parent didn't intend those options as a dichotomy but nonetheless, that's what is implied.

coldtea 11y ago
>This question ignores the possibility that their worthiness was simply never considered at all in the creation of the initial list. And why would their worthiness not be considered at all in the creation of the initial list? The whole point of the initial (and the second) list was to list worthy films for filmmakers to see. Obviously, either a film comes to your mind when you're creating a list of what you consider the best films, or it doesn't. Whether the director was a woman doesn't come into play in this, unless you're a misogynist purposefully avoiding to list film by women filmmakers. Since (I assume) Lee is not the latter, here's what seems is the case. When Spike Lee thinks (on his own) of what the best films are, the first list is what comes to his mind. But after he was questioned about it, and to appease the "crowds", he subsequently added some films by women to balance the list. In other words he added them to meet some quota (regardless of the films inherent quality, which after is all is not to be judged by Spike Lee only. E.g. the might be masterpieces too -- just not Lee's original masterpieces, but some that he had to be nudged to list).
- aninhumer 11y ago
  Firstly, it's a list of "must watch" films for artists, not "best" films. The criteria are slightly different. Secondly, whether a film "came to mind" is only somewhat related to whether he thinks it's worth inclusion in his list. Is it inconceivable to you that there could be films that did not initially occur to him, that he nonetheless considers worthy additions when he is reminded of them? Or do you suppose that Spike is a superhuman able to instantly recall all important films without fail?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Secondly, whether a film "came to mind" is only somewhat related to whether he thinks it's worth inclusion in his list. Is it inconceivable to you that there could be films that did not initially occur to him, that he nonetheless considers worthy additions when he is reminded of them? Not, it's very conceivable. What it's not conceivable is that those would only be films by women directors. Clearly the latter is just the response of the pressure to add some women's films. He could be perfectly satisfied giving people the first list (which is exactly what he did) if it wasn't for people calling him out on that. So, it's not like he suddenly realized he missed some. Of course he missed tons -- one always does in such a list. But having all the misses be women's films, means none of these he thought strong enough about to add it to his list -- and he had 70+ chances to do so. Missing ALL of them (while coming up with 70 other films) shows that's not just a case of forgetting them, -- and that he did a conscious effort to come up with some women's films to add. Not that he thinks those women's films are bad -- he could find them very good. But he clearly he's not that obsessed/connected with them enough to include them in a list of 70+ films he considers best WITHOUT someone telling him to explicitly add women's films >Or do you suppose that Spike is a superhuman able to instantly recall all important films without fail? You present a bogus strawman (that "it's inconceivable to me that he missed some and thus I seem to think of him as a superhuman with instant recall") -- when I never said either of these things. I guess the intention is to make my argument look silly -- only that isn't my argument at all. I don't expect any such list to include "all important films". Heck I don't even expect it to include the full list of "most important films" of the person compiling it. But I fully believe that if something didn't make it on a list of one's most important 70+ items, then it's probably not something they regard highly and think often of.

coldtea 11y ago

>This question ignores the possibility that their worthiness was simply never considered at all in the creation of the initial list. And why would their worthiness not be considered at all in the creation of the initial list? The whole point of the initial (and the second) list was to list worthy films for filmmakers to see. Obviously, either a film comes to your mind when you're creating a list of what you consider the best films, or it doesn't. Whether the director was a woman doesn't come into play in this, unless you're a misogynist purposefully avoiding to list film by women filmmakers. Since (I assume) Lee is not the latter, here's what seems is the case. When Spike Lee thinks (on his own) of what the best films are, the first list is what comes to his mind. But after he was questioned about it, and to appease the "crowds", he subsequently added some films by women to balance the list. In other words he added them to meet some quota (regardless of the films inherent quality, which after is all is not to be judged by Spike Lee only. E.g. the might be masterpieces too -- just not Lee's original masterpieces, but some that he had to be nudged to list).

aninhumer 11y ago
Firstly, it's a list of "must watch" films for artists, not "best" films. The criteria are slightly different. Secondly, whether a film "came to mind" is only somewhat related to whether he thinks it's worth inclusion in his list. Is it inconceivable to you that there could be films that did not initially occur to him, that he nonetheless considers worthy additions when he is reminded of them? Or do you suppose that Spike is a superhuman able to instantly recall all important films without fail?
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Secondly, whether a film "came to mind" is only somewhat related to whether he thinks it's worth inclusion in his list. Is it inconceivable to you that there could be films that did not initially occur to him, that he nonetheless considers worthy additions when he is reminded of them? Not, it's very conceivable. What it's not conceivable is that those would only be films by women directors. Clearly the latter is just the response of the pressure to add some women's films. He could be perfectly satisfied giving people the first list (which is exactly what he did) if it wasn't for people calling him out on that. So, it's not like he suddenly realized he missed some. Of course he missed tons -- one always does in such a list. But having all the misses be women's films, means none of these he thought strong enough about to add it to his list -- and he had 70+ chances to do so. Missing ALL of them (while coming up with 70 other films) shows that's not just a case of forgetting them, -- and that he did a conscious effort to come up with some women's films to add. Not that he thinks those women's films are bad -- he could find them very good. But he clearly he's not that obsessed/connected with them enough to include them in a list of 70+ films he considers best WITHOUT someone telling him to explicitly add women's films >Or do you suppose that Spike is a superhuman able to instantly recall all important films without fail? You present a bogus strawman (that "it's inconceivable to me that he missed some and thus I seem to think of him as a superhuman with instant recall") -- when I never said either of these things. I guess the intention is to make my argument look silly -- only that isn't my argument at all. I don't expect any such list to include "all important films". Heck I don't even expect it to include the full list of "most important films" of the person compiling it. But I fully believe that if something didn't make it on a list of one's most important 70+ items, then it's probably not something they regard highly and think often of.