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So... the FBI is essentially arguing we should all keep our doors unlocked because they have had to do some investigations in the past where they came to a home

by taf2 11y ago

So... the FBI is essentially arguing we should all keep our doors unlocked because they have had to do some investigations in the past where they came to a home that was locked and it was hard for them to enter the home.

SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
Or that you can get a lock on your door, so long as it's one of a short list of locks where they have a spare key. This has been tried, and works about as well as you might expect: https://theintercept.com/2015/09/17/tsa-doesnt-really-care-luggage-locks-hacked/ https://theintercept.com/2015/09/17/tsa-doesnt-really-care-l...
onion2k 11y ago
The FBI want to have a giant warehouse that houses a copy of every house key but we don't need to worry because no one will ever manage to break in to the warehouse.
- Benjammer 11y ago
  And everyone with legitimate access to the warehouse will be 100% trustworthy no matter what for the entire span of time they are granted access, and nobody without legitimate access will ever be allowed in, even someone like a co-worker of someone with access, and even under the full supervision of someone with legitimate access.
  - f00b4r123 11y ago
    An even stronger guarantee: That the definition of trustworthy and "good guy" are unchanging, and even in a dystopian future where a rogue actor is in control of government, those keys are safe because they understand the morality of the people who created them.
    - ethbro 11y ago
      I'd say something to invoke Godwin's law, but it seems pretty clear that genocidal governments that sweep into power love having access to copious amounts of detailed records.
      - AngrySkillzz 11y ago
        They don't even have to be genocidal; they could just be Richard Nixon.
        r00fus 11y ago
        Or Donald Trump.
      - zardo 11y ago
        The connection between outlawing maths and burning books doesn't take that much of a mental leap.
  - gherkin0 11y ago
    > And everyone with legitimate access to the warehouse will be 100% trustworthy no matter what for the entire span of time they are granted access Of course. These are upstanding FBI agents we're talking about. There's no way one would ever cheat or steal or blackmail anyone. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/politics/federal-agents-charged-with-stealing-bitcoin/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/politics/federal-agents-charge...
- Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
  It's worse than that. They want to ship those keys to their agents, only they'd arrive instantly and the only authentication is probably a password (their kid's name and birthday) with no human intervention.
- knughit 11y ago
  With the key inside the warehouse, no one can get in.
- baddox 11y ago
  I hate how we always have to tiptoe around saying that the primary threat would be a non-government actor breaking into the warehouse. I'm much more worried about the FBI itself having the keys.
allemagne 11y ago
The only reason they aren't actually advocating for exactly that is because it's easy for them to break into a locked home. If there were some new technology that made breaking into a house almost totally impossible, this is exactly what would happen.
- noonespecial 11y ago
  Reality is waaayyy ahead of you. https://chicagocrimelaw.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/this-week-in-ridiculous-criminal-laws-iv-fortification-of-a-building/ https://chicagocrimelaw.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/this-week-i...
slg 11y ago
The FBI already has access to pretty much any locked door they want if they get a warrant. Their problem is that warrants don't work against encryption.
- kbenson 11y ago
  The front door is a less useful metaphor than your safe. We have safes in addition to locked front doors because it's accepted getting into the house is generally not that hard, whether you be law enforcement or a criminal.
  - taf2 11y ago
    My parents worked for the NSA before there was an NSA. A guy came in to do a talk about how there is no such thing as security. He had a table with a bunch of common locks and even some safes. He proceeded to unlock each one in a matter of seconds to demonstrate his point. Modern encryption however is changing the game. It's no longer true that security is just a matter of perception. It's becoming a reality and that makes for an interesting and bold new world we're entering.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      Maybe, but the game is still the same. There are weak points for encryption just as there were weak points with the safe that he unlocked.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#World_War_II_and_its_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#World... What did they do?
      - taf2 11y ago
        It's a secret - break codes and write code, ;). While the NSA was started in the 50s it was not widely known until the 70s https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

by taf2 11y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago

Or that you can get a lock on your door, so long as it's one of a short list of locks where they have a spare key. This has been tried, and works about as well as you might expect: https://theintercept.com/2015/09/17/tsa-doesnt-really-care-luggage-locks-hacked/ https://theintercept.com/2015/09/17/tsa-doesnt-really-care-l...

onion2k 11y ago

The FBI want to have a giant warehouse that houses a copy of every house key but we don't need to worry because no one will ever manage to break in to the warehouse.

Benjammer 11y ago
And everyone with legitimate access to the warehouse will be 100% trustworthy no matter what for the entire span of time they are granted access, and nobody without legitimate access will ever be allowed in, even someone like a co-worker of someone with access, and even under the full supervision of someone with legitimate access.
- f00b4r123 11y ago
  An even stronger guarantee: That the definition of trustworthy and "good guy" are unchanging, and even in a dystopian future where a rogue actor is in control of government, those keys are safe because they understand the morality of the people who created them.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    I'd say something to invoke Godwin's law, but it seems pretty clear that genocidal governments that sweep into power love having access to copious amounts of detailed records.
    - AngrySkillzz 11y ago
      They don't even have to be genocidal; they could just be Richard Nixon.
      - r00fus 11y ago
        Or Donald Trump.
    - zardo 11y ago
      The connection between outlawing maths and burning books doesn't take that much of a mental leap.
- gherkin0 11y ago
  > And everyone with legitimate access to the warehouse will be 100% trustworthy no matter what for the entire span of time they are granted access Of course. These are upstanding FBI agents we're talking about. There's no way one would ever cheat or steal or blackmail anyone. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/politics/federal-agents-charged-with-stealing-bitcoin/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/30/politics/federal-agents-charge...
Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
It's worse than that. They want to ship those keys to their agents, only they'd arrive instantly and the only authentication is probably a password (their kid's name and birthday) with no human intervention.
knughit 11y ago
With the key inside the warehouse, no one can get in.
baddox 11y ago
I hate how we always have to tiptoe around saying that the primary threat would be a non-government actor breaking into the warehouse. I'm much more worried about the FBI itself having the keys.

allemagne 11y ago

The only reason they aren't actually advocating for exactly that is because it's easy for them to break into a locked home. If there were some new technology that made breaking into a house almost totally impossible, this is exactly what would happen.

noonespecial 11y ago
Reality is waaayyy ahead of you. https://chicagocrimelaw.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/this-week-in-ridiculous-criminal-laws-iv-fortification-of-a-building/ https://chicagocrimelaw.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/this-week-i...

slg 11y ago

The FBI already has access to pretty much any locked door they want if they get a warrant. Their problem is that warrants don't work against encryption.

kbenson 11y ago
The front door is a less useful metaphor than your safe. We have safes in addition to locked front doors because it's accepted getting into the house is generally not that hard, whether you be law enforcement or a criminal.
- taf2 11y ago
  My parents worked for the NSA before there was an NSA. A guy came in to do a talk about how there is no such thing as security. He had a table with a bunch of common locks and even some safes. He proceeded to unlock each one in a matter of seconds to demonstrate his point. Modern encryption however is changing the game. It's no longer true that security is just a matter of perception. It's becoming a reality and that makes for an interesting and bold new world we're entering.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    Maybe, but the game is still the same. There are weak points for encryption just as there were weak points with the safe that he unlocked.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#World_War_II_and_its_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#World... What did they do?
    - taf2 11y ago
      It's a secret - break codes and write code, ;). While the NSA was started in the 50s it was not widely known until the 70s https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline