4 ms·

How does checking someone's ID make an airport more secure? Either you can screen for weapons or you cannot.

spacehome 11y ago
I get your point (and it's a good one), but I don't think it's even possible to get 100% effectiveness in screening for weapons. The government can't even keep cell phones and drugs out of jail. From a Bayesian standpoint, having the ability to look out for certain individuals and subject them to more scrutiny should at least in theory (if it's done correctly) lead to better outcomes.
jdmichal 11y ago
A lot, if not most, of the security surrounding flights happens behind the scenes before you even get to the airport. If the name on the ticket is not the person getting on the plane, then all of that background work is worthless.
- ben1040 11y ago
  Which means it's also possible for a prospective terrorist or group of terrorists to go buy plane tickets to test how the system behaves, and rule out team members who are on the no-fly or selectee lists?
imglorp 11y ago
I get the impression it is not at all about security but security theater, as Bruce Schneier would say. It makes the govt appear to be doing something against a perceived threat. But more importantly, it acclimates people to needing permission to travel and being observed while they do so; to being accountable to the government instead of having the government being accountable to the people; and to having a police presence in the most mundane aspects of their life. We've seen this before in history and it didn't end well.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Follow the money. ID checks prevent people from reselling airline tickets. That allows the airlines to make more money from change fees and abandoned tickets. Making the security people do the checks allows the airlines to look innocent in this.
  - imglorp 11y ago
    I agree there's multiple interests aligned, as always, in the airline case. But we're also seeing TSA involvement on the street, at sporting events, train stations, and other seemingly useless places. The assertion about police state desensitization remains...
forgottenpass 11y ago
They can't, and they know they can't. The TSA failing their own tests is in the news every now and then. So they pile on more layers of security. Also worth noting, they care about the appearance of security in addition to the actual level of security. And boondoggle projects are great cover for otherwise unsavory projects.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
CaptainZapp 11y ago
In a lot of European airports you're not asked for ID. At least as long as you don't leave the Schengen area. This certainly applies for Zurich, Vienna, Düsseldorf and Warsaw. You just scan your bording pass, or barcode on the phone and enter through an automated gate. Same, mostly applies, when you enter the plane. This is not a recommendation not to carry an id, because there's always the possibility that some official, or airline staff wants to see it.
Torgo 11y ago
Social graphs help solve and prevent crime.
ChemicalWarfare 11y ago
There are all kinds of reasons the tsa and the airlines want to make sure you are who you claim you are. Most obvious would be checking to make sure you're not someone on the 'no flight list' for example.
13of40 11y ago
The devil's advocate would point out that it makes the country more safe by keeping known terrorists out and/or limiting the mobility of criminals. For example, if someone just murdered their family, the easiest way to distance themselves from the scene of the crime would be to get on a plane for L.A.
emodendroket 11y ago
Well, how does a no-fly list work without ID?
- spacehome 11y ago
  Exactly as well as it should work.

I get your point (and it's a good one), but I don't think it's even possible to get 100% effectiveness in screening for weapons. The government can't even keep cell phones and drugs out of jail. From a Bayesian standpoint, having the ability to look out for certain individuals and subject them to more scrutiny should at least in theory (if it's done correctly) lead to better outcomes.

jdmichal 11y ago

A lot, if not most, of the security surrounding flights happens behind the scenes before you even get to the airport. If the name on the ticket is not the person getting on the plane, then all of that background work is worthless.

ben1040 11y ago
Which means it's also possible for a prospective terrorist or group of terrorists to go buy plane tickets to test how the system behaves, and rule out team members who are on the no-fly or selectee lists?

imglorp 11y ago

I get the impression it is not at all about security but security theater, as Bruce Schneier would say. It makes the govt appear to be doing something against a perceived threat. But more importantly, it acclimates people to needing permission to travel and being observed while they do so; to being accountable to the government instead of having the government being accountable to the people; and to having a police presence in the most mundane aspects of their life. We've seen this before in history and it didn't end well.

mikeash 11y ago
Follow the money. ID checks prevent people from reselling airline tickets. That allows the airlines to make more money from change fees and abandoned tickets. Making the security people do the checks allows the airlines to look innocent in this.
- imglorp 11y ago
  I agree there's multiple interests aligned, as always, in the airline case. But we're also seeing TSA involvement on the street, at sporting events, train stations, and other seemingly useless places. The assertion about police state desensitization remains...

forgottenpass 11y ago

They can't, and they know they can't. The TSA failing their own tests is in the news every now and then. So they pile on more layers of security. Also worth noting, they care about the appearance of security in addition to the actual level of security. And boondoggle projects are great cover for otherwise unsavory projects.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

CaptainZapp 11y ago

In a lot of European airports you're not asked for ID. At least as long as you don't leave the Schengen area. This certainly applies for Zurich, Vienna, Düsseldorf and Warsaw. You just scan your bording pass, or barcode on the phone and enter through an automated gate. Same, mostly applies, when you enter the plane. This is not a recommendation not to carry an id, because there's always the possibility that some official, or airline staff wants to see it.

Torgo 11y ago

Social graphs help solve and prevent crime.

ChemicalWarfare 11y ago

There are all kinds of reasons the tsa and the airlines want to make sure you are who you claim you are. Most obvious would be checking to make sure you're not someone on the 'no flight list' for example.

13of40 11y ago

The devil's advocate would point out that it makes the country more safe by keeping known terrorists out and/or limiting the mobility of criminals. For example, if someone just murdered their family, the easiest way to distance themselves from the scene of the crime would be to get on a plane for L.A.

emodendroket 11y ago

Well, how does a no-fly list work without ID?

spacehome 11y ago
Exactly as well as it should work.