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It would be great if my manager read anything at all. Having been through a few managers; the good ones read, the bad ones don't read. It doesn't matter what th

by jbob2000 11y ago

It would be great if my manager read anything at all. Having been through a few managers; the good ones read, the bad ones don't read. It doesn't matter what they read, the last good one I had pretty much only read WW2 novels. That being said, I think Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is an important read for anyone in technology. It changed how I approach and appreciate technology.

bjornsing 11y ago
> the good ones read, the bad ones don't read Interesting observation! Note that you're describing a correlational study though (and not a randomized controlled trial), so even if you're right it might not help to get your non-reading manager to read... :P
nibnib 11y ago
Just curious how you came to this conclusion, were you asking about reading habits? I have no idea what my managers are/were reading, unless they mention it or make a recommendation.
- jbob2000 11y ago
  No, but you get to know someone when you work closely with them, you pick up these kinds of things through conversation; "What did you do last night?" "Oh, I stayed up to finish this book, I've read the whole series". As opposed to "Oh, I watched the last season of breaking bad again".
minikites 11y ago
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is amazing and I happened to read it at just the right time in my life where it shaped a lot of how I think about technology and the different ways to approach it.
- mrfusion 11y ago
  Care to explain? I didn't really get anything like that from the book.
  - minikites 11y ago
    It's been a while since I've re-read it so I might not have the finer points correct, but one of the main lessons is how the authors approach to motorcycle tweaking differs from the couple he is traveling with. He has a old bike that needs a mixture adjustment as they change altitude and he enjoys the act of figuring out how to make the engine run just right. In contrast, the couple he is traveling with has a new bike that makes all those adjustments automatically. The author takes great pains to point out that neither of these views is wrong, each one is enjoyable in its own way.
    - beeboop 11y ago
      I haven't read the book, but I found this summary: https://lettersfromtheporch.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/what-you-might-discover-from-zen-and-the-art-of-motorcycle-maintenance/ https://lettersfromtheporch.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/what-yo... You are close, but I think the message is more nuanced than you state (as you guessed). What the book seems to be contrasting is the "romantic" view of something (the emotions it generates) and the classical view (the logic and order of something). This applies to a lot of things in life (cooking, music, programming etc) and the book uses the examples of motorcycles. One person doesn't mind tinkering with his motorcycle because it's part of the "experience" and he finds an emotional appeal to it. The other person only sees the motorcycle as a means to a different experience (traveling) and only cares that it works for their purpose. The summmary says, "Only by finding the middle ground that accepts both views can a person deal with the frustration and dissatisfaction of everyday life." I am not sure how finding the middle ground would make me more satisfied with life. I understand cooking has very romantic feelings for some people, but to me it's a chore. I don't have the same experiences, background, and emotional wiring as someone who enjoys cooking, and I don't think I ever will. Understanding that other people like it doesn't make me like it anymore. I guess maybe the point of the book is to try to view things romantically, and giving that view a chance.
mrfusion 11y ago
How did it change how you think about technology?
- jbob2000 11y ago
  I used to be a first adopter, very fervent about certain technologies and brands, always wanted to stay on the cutting edge. I used to spend huge amounts of time on my computer, like frequent 12 hour sprints. When I started reading the book, it seemed like it was going to justify that lifestyle to me. It's good to tinker and be mechanically aware, you know? I wanted to be like the narrator, he seemed like the pinnacle engineer. But I just started missing out on things and ignoring people. It clicked for me when I got my first car and when I got in my first accident. I spent so much time keeping this thing in perfect shape, all to be destroyed by some dumb ass maneuver I pulled. After that, I wanted to be more like John. A car is just something to make life happen, it's not a reason to live. Same thing with computers, they're just there to help you out a little, not something to give up your life for. I guess it was the car accident that really changed how I think about things, but reading the book gave me the language/vocabulary to understand how I felt.
GFischer 11y ago
I second that observation. I wish the manager at my day job read ANYTHING, at the very least some informercial-laden industry publication. In my case, I'd like him to read Fred Brooks' "The Mythical Man-Month", to make him understand how a programming system costs a lot more than a simple module. Summary: http://javatroopers.com/Mythical_Man_Month.html http://javatroopers.com/Mythical_Man_Month.html In second place, I'd place "Peopleware", so he'd understand the importance of communications, and how the current office arrangement is losing the company a lot of money: Summary: http://javatroopers.com/Peopleware.html http://javatroopers.com/Peopleware.html Amazon link to both: http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Anniversary/dp/0201835959 http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Ann... http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Second-Edition/dp/0932633439 http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Second-...

bjornsing 11y ago

> the good ones read, the bad ones don't read Interesting observation! Note that you're describing a correlational study though (and not a randomized controlled trial), so even if you're right it might not help to get your non-reading manager to read... :P

nibnib 11y ago

Just curious how you came to this conclusion, were you asking about reading habits? I have no idea what my managers are/were reading, unless they mention it or make a recommendation.

jbob2000 11y ago
No, but you get to know someone when you work closely with them, you pick up these kinds of things through conversation; "What did you do last night?" "Oh, I stayed up to finish this book, I've read the whole series". As opposed to "Oh, I watched the last season of breaking bad again".

minikites 11y ago

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is amazing and I happened to read it at just the right time in my life where it shaped a lot of how I think about technology and the different ways to approach it.

mrfusion 11y ago
Care to explain? I didn't really get anything like that from the book.
- minikites 11y ago
  It's been a while since I've re-read it so I might not have the finer points correct, but one of the main lessons is how the authors approach to motorcycle tweaking differs from the couple he is traveling with. He has a old bike that needs a mixture adjustment as they change altitude and he enjoys the act of figuring out how to make the engine run just right. In contrast, the couple he is traveling with has a new bike that makes all those adjustments automatically. The author takes great pains to point out that neither of these views is wrong, each one is enjoyable in its own way.
  - beeboop 11y ago
    I haven't read the book, but I found this summary: https://lettersfromtheporch.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/what-you-might-discover-from-zen-and-the-art-of-motorcycle-maintenance/ https://lettersfromtheporch.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/what-yo... You are close, but I think the message is more nuanced than you state (as you guessed). What the book seems to be contrasting is the "romantic" view of something (the emotions it generates) and the classical view (the logic and order of something). This applies to a lot of things in life (cooking, music, programming etc) and the book uses the examples of motorcycles. One person doesn't mind tinkering with his motorcycle because it's part of the "experience" and he finds an emotional appeal to it. The other person only sees the motorcycle as a means to a different experience (traveling) and only cares that it works for their purpose. The summmary says, "Only by finding the middle ground that accepts both views can a person deal with the frustration and dissatisfaction of everyday life." I am not sure how finding the middle ground would make me more satisfied with life. I understand cooking has very romantic feelings for some people, but to me it's a chore. I don't have the same experiences, background, and emotional wiring as someone who enjoys cooking, and I don't think I ever will. Understanding that other people like it doesn't make me like it anymore. I guess maybe the point of the book is to try to view things romantically, and giving that view a chance.

mrfusion 11y ago

How did it change how you think about technology?

jbob2000 11y ago
I used to be a first adopter, very fervent about certain technologies and brands, always wanted to stay on the cutting edge. I used to spend huge amounts of time on my computer, like frequent 12 hour sprints. When I started reading the book, it seemed like it was going to justify that lifestyle to me. It's good to tinker and be mechanically aware, you know? I wanted to be like the narrator, he seemed like the pinnacle engineer. But I just started missing out on things and ignoring people. It clicked for me when I got my first car and when I got in my first accident. I spent so much time keeping this thing in perfect shape, all to be destroyed by some dumb ass maneuver I pulled. After that, I wanted to be more like John. A car is just something to make life happen, it's not a reason to live. Same thing with computers, they're just there to help you out a little, not something to give up your life for. I guess it was the car accident that really changed how I think about things, but reading the book gave me the language/vocabulary to understand how I felt.

GFischer 11y ago

I second that observation. I wish the manager at my day job read ANYTHING, at the very least some informercial-laden industry publication. In my case, I'd like him to read Fred Brooks' "The Mythical Man-Month", to make him understand how a programming system costs a lot more than a simple module. Summary: http://javatroopers.com/Mythical_Man_Month.html http://javatroopers.com/Mythical_Man_Month.html In second place, I'd place "Peopleware", so he'd understand the importance of communications, and how the current office arrangement is losing the company a lot of money: Summary: http://javatroopers.com/Peopleware.html http://javatroopers.com/Peopleware.html Amazon link to both: http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Anniversary/dp/0201835959 http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Ann... http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Second-Edition/dp/0932633439 http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Second-...