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NK can be considered a natural disaster or something else that you cannot bargain with (unless you're with the Chinese government). Holding NK at fault here is

by idp 11y ago

NK can be considered a natural disaster or something else that you cannot bargain with (unless you're with the Chinese government). Holding NK at fault here is about as practical as holding at fault gravity if the guy tried to vandalize an ad billboard, fell down, broke his spine and spent the next 15 years paralyzed. So if this guy really did what the news claims he did, he has a rather big problem with his mental abilities. Saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in prison" is akin to saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in a hospital ward". Perhaps he doesn't, but the world works on causal chains rather than fairness.

dfischer 11y ago
That's pretty harsh man. He's a kid and doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster. Look at the humanity in it regardless of how factual NK behaves. The kid simply doesn't deserve it and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.
- ams6110 11y ago
  Sure, by our standards. He's not in a place that operates by our standards. And he knew that going in. Some people seem to have this illusion that the rest of the world is what they want it to be, rather than what it is.
- knorker 11y ago
  You're replying to the comment that quite accurately makes the case "deserve's got NOTHING to do with it", and your only argument is that he doesn't deserve it. O…k?
- MaulingMonkey 11y ago
  > The kid simply doesn't deserve it Nobody is saying he does. > and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him. Sure, but that's not the question. The question is: Is it the right thing to do to help him, at the expense of helping someone else? They don't deserve it either. But life is unfair, and we can only do so much at once - this is basic opportunity cost. It's simply impossible for us to do everything at once - we're merely human. Even when your goal is to eventually save everyone, you have to prioritize. Even when the stakes are as high as helping people survive North Korea. Perhaps especially then - when it matters most to do as much good as possible.
  - crispyambulance 11y ago
    Who, exactly, are the others that will not be helped when the student gets bailed out? There have been batch releases in the past, these releases can be "bundled."
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- vacri 11y ago
  > He's a kid He's twenty-one years old. He can drive a heavy vehicle, vote for politicians that affect all of society, and die in a uniform for his country. > doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster I don't think he deserves it either. I also don't think people deserve years of jailtime for simple possession of drugs, yet american jails are full of such people. The same kind of "kids" who make the same kind of decisions ("this will be fun!"). The right thing to do there is not imprison those people - even if you think possession should be illegal, years of jailtime is too excessive a punishment. The only thing that makes this newsworthy is that it happened in NK, and he's 'lucky' about that - because newsworthy = publicly visible, and that means the government is more likely to get involved. If this had happened in a place like Eritrea, it'd be lucky to make the news, because as I said above, this kind of stuff happens to hundreds of people every year.
fixermark 11y ago
Governments composed of humans are not natural disasters. This is why the US sends representatives from the State Department to negotiate his release and not the National Weather Service.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  >Governments composed of humans are not natural disasters. The North Korean government is pretty close. The people in it are borderline insane, so you can't deal with them like you would deal with rational human beings.
  - ionised 11y ago
    I don't think they are insane, just incredibly self-serving to the point where they would leave the rest of the country in abject poverty in order to maintain their stranglehold on the country's leadership and the power, wealth and influence that comes with it. What happens if Kim abdicated and NK became a true democratic state? He and the rest of the leadership would be hunted down for war crimes and crimes against humanity. It's a dynasty protecting itself at the expense of everyone else.
    - Grishnakh 11y ago
      If they really wanted to do that, it wouldn't be very hard; they'd just do something like what the UK did: set themselves up as permanent monarchs (of a sort) and then set up a parliament and gradually shift power to it while keeping the Kim dynasty as head-of-state. Make sure to write the laws so they can't be applied retroactively, eventually make the Kims figureheads who just sign the laws and act as a possible last-resort in case the parliament goes out of control or does something they really don't like, but otherwise stay out of governing. No, I think the dynasty stays in power because they actually want to be in power.
- knorker 11y ago
  They're not. But you need to accept the reality of the real world.

by idp 11y ago

dfischer 11y ago

That's pretty harsh man. He's a kid and doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster. Look at the humanity in it regardless of how factual NK behaves. The kid simply doesn't deserve it and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.

ams6110 11y ago
Sure, by our standards. He's not in a place that operates by our standards. And he knew that going in. Some people seem to have this illusion that the rest of the world is what they want it to be, rather than what it is.
knorker 11y ago
You're replying to the comment that quite accurately makes the case "deserve's got NOTHING to do with it", and your only argument is that he doesn't deserve it. O…k?
MaulingMonkey 11y ago
> The kid simply doesn't deserve it Nobody is saying he does. > and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him. Sure, but that's not the question. The question is: Is it the right thing to do to help him, at the expense of helping someone else? They don't deserve it either. But life is unfair, and we can only do so much at once - this is basic opportunity cost. It's simply impossible for us to do everything at once - we're merely human. Even when your goal is to eventually save everyone, you have to prioritize. Even when the stakes are as high as helping people survive North Korea. Perhaps especially then - when it matters most to do as much good as possible.
- crispyambulance 11y ago
  Who, exactly, are the others that will not be helped when the student gets bailed out? There have been batch releases in the past, these releases can be "bundled."
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
vacri 11y ago
> He's a kid He's twenty-one years old. He can drive a heavy vehicle, vote for politicians that affect all of society, and die in a uniform for his country. > doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster I don't think he deserves it either. I also don't think people deserve years of jailtime for simple possession of drugs, yet american jails are full of such people. The same kind of "kids" who make the same kind of decisions ("this will be fun!"). The right thing to do there is not imprison those people - even if you think possession should be illegal, years of jailtime is too excessive a punishment. The only thing that makes this newsworthy is that it happened in NK, and he's 'lucky' about that - because newsworthy = publicly visible, and that means the government is more likely to get involved. If this had happened in a place like Eritrea, it'd be lucky to make the news, because as I said above, this kind of stuff happens to hundreds of people every year.

fixermark 11y ago

Governments composed of humans are not natural disasters. This is why the US sends representatives from the State Department to negotiate his release and not the National Weather Service.

Grishnakh 11y ago
>Governments composed of humans are not natural disasters. The North Korean government is pretty close. The people in it are borderline insane, so you can't deal with them like you would deal with rational human beings.
- ionised 11y ago
  I don't think they are insane, just incredibly self-serving to the point where they would leave the rest of the country in abject poverty in order to maintain their stranglehold on the country's leadership and the power, wealth and influence that comes with it. What happens if Kim abdicated and NK became a true democratic state? He and the rest of the leadership would be hunted down for war crimes and crimes against humanity. It's a dynasty protecting itself at the expense of everyone else.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    If they really wanted to do that, it wouldn't be very hard; they'd just do something like what the UK did: set themselves up as permanent monarchs (of a sort) and then set up a parliament and gradually shift power to it while keeping the Kim dynasty as head-of-state. Make sure to write the laws so they can't be applied retroactively, eventually make the Kims figureheads who just sign the laws and act as a possible last-resort in case the parliament goes out of control or does something they really don't like, but otherwise stay out of governing. No, I think the dynasty stays in power because they actually want to be in power.
knorker 11y ago
They're not. But you need to accept the reality of the real world.