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Someone claiming to travel in his same group posted on this recent submission https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11286997 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id

Someone claiming to travel in his same group posted on this recent submission https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11286997 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11286997 . Apparently they were given quite a leeway for what regular travel reports tell. I don't know if the charges are true, but given the history, North Korea doesn't seem like the best place to go to have fun, go to bars, or steal banners, specially with an American passport. I hope diplomacy can move fast enough and get the release of this poor guy.

vacri 11y ago
> I hope diplomacy can move fast enough and get the release of this poor guy. Hundreds of people get into similar trouble every year. The only reason why this is notable is that it's a prank in North Korea. If he really did try to steal the poster, then he's a moron who walked into the lion's den and tweaked it's nose - it's not like NK's dictatorial control and harsh penalties are subtle and poorly-known. If the story is true, he should be near the bottom of the help-needed list, because there's plenty more who need diplomatic assistance for misadventure beyond their control. I really don't understand this trend of people going to NK and seeing how far they can push the line. It doesn't make sense - push too far, and you're fucked. And again, it's not like it's easy to innocently go too far - it's difficult to get into the country, it's in the public mind as a crazy place you don't want to step wrong, and you're constantly reminded when you are there. You actually have to want to go there and be an arse if you do go there and be an arse.
- crispyambulance 11y ago
  North Korea sees stuff like this as an opportunity to exploit. It means some big shot will have to visit to exchange the detainee for "something." It was perhaps a stupid idea, but he doesn't actually deserve 15 years hard labor for the antics of a 20-something prankster.
  - idp 11y ago
    NK can be considered a natural disaster or something else that you cannot bargain with (unless you're with the Chinese government). Holding NK at fault here is about as practical as holding at fault gravity if the guy tried to vandalize an ad billboard, fell down, broke his spine and spent the next 15 years paralyzed. So if this guy really did what the news claims he did, he has a rather big problem with his mental abilities. Saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in prison" is akin to saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in a hospital ward". Perhaps he doesn't, but the world works on causal chains rather than fairness.
    - dfischer 11y ago
      That's pretty harsh man. He's a kid and doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster. Look at the humanity in it regardless of how factual NK behaves. The kid simply doesn't deserve it and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.
      - ams6110 11y ago
        Sure, by our standards. He's not in a place that operates by our standards. And he knew that going in. Some people seem to have this illusion that the rest of the world is what they want it to be, rather than what it is.
      - knorker 11y ago
        You're replying to the comment that quite accurately makes the case "deserve's got NOTHING to do with it", and your only argument is that he doesn't deserve it. O…k?
      - MaulingMonkey 11y ago
        > The kid simply doesn't deserve it Nobody is saying he does. > and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him. Sure, but that's not the question. The question is: Is it the right thing to do to help him, at the expense of helping someone else? They don't deserve it either. But life is unfair, and we can only do so much at once - this is basic opportunity cost. It's simply impossible for us to do everything at once - we're merely human. Even when your goal is to eventually save everyone, you have to prioritize. Even when the stakes are as high as helping people survive North Korea. Perhaps especially then - when it matters most to do as much good as possible.
  - 59nadir 11y ago
    > the antics of a 20-something prankster. Most antics of 20-something pranksters don't cost their country diplomatic favors, but of course North Korea is gonna make sure this one does. That's why it's so incredibly obvious to everyone else in the world that you probably shouldn't act like your typical 20-something prankster in North Korea. The reality is that this favor will likely cost someone else something; hopefully they'll make sure to not prioritize him over too many other people, considering the sheer stupidity of this.
    - crispyambulance 11y ago
      I am sure that visitors from other countries do this stuff and get away with it or just get a fine or pay a bribe. Thankfully, not a lot of Americans visit North Korea or we would see more incidents like this. The fact that North Korea is so insane is what makes pulling a prank there irresistible, that's why the prank has "value."
  - jlarocco 11y ago
    Meh. Screw this guy. He's an idiot. He traveled around the world and committed a crime in a country famous for being a strict dictatorship, unfriendly to the United States, and doling out harsh punishments. WTF did he expect to happen?
- alexandrerond 11y ago
  I tend to agree with you, but I just cannot forget that even if they guy did something stupid, what is really wrong is the NK regime that sends him to 15 years of force labour for a minor offense. So I do hope they get him out asap, with the other hundreds of people of course.
darklajid 11y ago
Link to the subthread in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287471

vacri 11y ago

> I hope diplomacy can move fast enough and get the release of this poor guy. Hundreds of people get into similar trouble every year. The only reason why this is notable is that it's a prank in North Korea. If he really did try to steal the poster, then he's a moron who walked into the lion's den and tweaked it's nose - it's not like NK's dictatorial control and harsh penalties are subtle and poorly-known. If the story is true, he should be near the bottom of the help-needed list, because there's plenty more who need diplomatic assistance for misadventure beyond their control. I really don't understand this trend of people going to NK and seeing how far they can push the line. It doesn't make sense - push too far, and you're fucked. And again, it's not like it's easy to innocently go too far - it's difficult to get into the country, it's in the public mind as a crazy place you don't want to step wrong, and you're constantly reminded when you are there. You actually have to want to go there and be an arse if you do go there and be an arse.

crispyambulance 11y ago
North Korea sees stuff like this as an opportunity to exploit. It means some big shot will have to visit to exchange the detainee for "something." It was perhaps a stupid idea, but he doesn't actually deserve 15 years hard labor for the antics of a 20-something prankster.
- idp 11y ago
  NK can be considered a natural disaster or something else that you cannot bargain with (unless you're with the Chinese government). Holding NK at fault here is about as practical as holding at fault gravity if the guy tried to vandalize an ad billboard, fell down, broke his spine and spent the next 15 years paralyzed. So if this guy really did what the news claims he did, he has a rather big problem with his mental abilities. Saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in prison" is akin to saying "he doesn't actually deserve 15 years in a hospital ward". Perhaps he doesn't, but the world works on causal chains rather than fairness.
  - dfischer 11y ago
    That's pretty harsh man. He's a kid and doesn't deserve 15 years for tearing down a poster. Look at the humanity in it regardless of how factual NK behaves. The kid simply doesn't deserve it and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him.
    - ams6110 11y ago
      Sure, by our standards. He's not in a place that operates by our standards. And he knew that going in. Some people seem to have this illusion that the rest of the world is what they want it to be, rather than what it is.
    - knorker 11y ago
      You're replying to the comment that quite accurately makes the case "deserve's got NOTHING to do with it", and your only argument is that he doesn't deserve it. O…k?
    - MaulingMonkey 11y ago
      > The kid simply doesn't deserve it Nobody is saying he does. > and it's the _right thing to do_ to help him. Sure, but that's not the question. The question is: Is it the right thing to do to help him, at the expense of helping someone else? They don't deserve it either. But life is unfair, and we can only do so much at once - this is basic opportunity cost. It's simply impossible for us to do everything at once - we're merely human. Even when your goal is to eventually save everyone, you have to prioritize. Even when the stakes are as high as helping people survive North Korea. Perhaps especially then - when it matters most to do as much good as possible.
- 59nadir 11y ago
  > the antics of a 20-something prankster. Most antics of 20-something pranksters don't cost their country diplomatic favors, but of course North Korea is gonna make sure this one does. That's why it's so incredibly obvious to everyone else in the world that you probably shouldn't act like your typical 20-something prankster in North Korea. The reality is that this favor will likely cost someone else something; hopefully they'll make sure to not prioritize him over too many other people, considering the sheer stupidity of this.
  - crispyambulance 11y ago
    I am sure that visitors from other countries do this stuff and get away with it or just get a fine or pay a bribe. Thankfully, not a lot of Americans visit North Korea or we would see more incidents like this. The fact that North Korea is so insane is what makes pulling a prank there irresistible, that's why the prank has "value."
- jlarocco 11y ago
  Meh. Screw this guy. He's an idiot. He traveled around the world and committed a crime in a country famous for being a strict dictatorship, unfriendly to the United States, and doling out harsh punishments. WTF did he expect to happen?
alexandrerond 11y ago
I tend to agree with you, but I just cannot forget that even if they guy did something stupid, what is really wrong is the NK regime that sends him to 15 years of force labour for a minor offense. So I do hope they get him out asap, with the other hundreds of people of course.

darklajid 11y ago

Link to the subthread in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287471